Thread: If Men are 'Dogs'...

...what does that make women, Errr....'Bitches'?

Why do some ladies/women feel they can just bandy the above statement about and at whim? I read in a thread how one lady said her friend reckons that 90% of men are 'Dogs' (it's no surprise then that she ended up with one, no pun intended, thoughts are powerful) and another poster responded - perhaps giving some credit to men - she retorts by saying 60% of men are dogs. Blimey! So let's go with the lesser figure...

If 60% of men are dogs, and we know "dogs" only mate with "bitches", what percentage of women are bitches then? I ask because that saying "men are dogs" is so pervasive amongst african/black women it's unnelievable. If men are dogs, are they dogs because they sleep with other men? If so, then shame on the women who sleep with them. But if women say men are dogs because they sleep around with other women, then we must agree that women are bitches too.

And if such a high proportion of men are dogs...then an equally high amount of women must be bitches whether knowingly or unknowingly. Dogs only sleep with bitches.

Why am I harping on someone asks? Because I feel it's time we stop propagating the silly statement/belief that men are not trustworthy. Am I saying that some men don't fool around? Absolutely not, some do, but so does women! Am I in support of men sleeping aroun? Absolutely not! But if men sleep around and we think we should generalise, then we must generalise and do so equally with the women. If there are no loose women whospread their legs, then there will be no men who fool around. In short, if men are dogs...and 60% of them are (as ridiculous as that is) then women are bitches and pardon me to say that (a higher percentage of women are!!!).

What you believe often determines what you get. If you think most men are dogs...the probability that you'll get a "dog" (that'll make you a bitch) is very high. If you don't believe it, keep on holding that view and keep on living!

(NB: I use the term bitch/bitches as in the female version of a dog)

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

...what does that make women, Errr....'Bitches'?



(NB: I use the term bitch/bitches as in the female version of a dog)

Hmm. Just like some white people use the term Nigga as in my homey

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

...what does that make women, Errr....'Bitches'?

Why do some ladies/women feel they can just bandy the above statement about and at whim? I read in a thread how one lady said her friend reckons that 90% of men are 'Dogs' (it's no surprise then that she ended up with one, no pun intended, thoughts are powerful) and another poster responded - perhaps giving some credit to men - she retorts by saying 60% of men are dogs. Blimey! So let's go with the lesser figure...

If 60% of men are dogs, and we know "dogs" only mate with "bitches", what percentage of women are bitches then? I ask because that saying "men are dogs" is so pervasive amongst african/black women it's unnelievable. If men are dogs, are they dogs because they sleep with other men? If so, then shame on the women who sleep with them. But if women say men are dogs because they sleep around with other women, then we must agree that women are bitches too.

And if such a high proportion of men are dogs...then an equally high amount of women must be bitches whether knowingly or unknowingly. Dogs only sleep with bitches.

Why am I harping on someone asks? Because I feel it's time we stop propagating the silly statement/belief that men are not trustworthy. Am I saying that some men don't fool around? Absolutely not, some do, but so does women! Am I in support of men sleeping aroun? Absolutely not! But if men sleep around and we think we should generalise, then we must generalise and do so equally with the women. If there are no loose women whospread their legs, then there will be no men who fool around. In short, if men are dogs...and 60% of them are (as ridiculous as that is) then women are bitches and pardon me to say that (a higher percentage of women are!!!).

What you believe often determines what you get. If you think most men are dogs...the probability that you'll get a "dog" (that'll make you a bitch) is very high. If you don't believe it, keep on holding that view and keep on living!

(NB: I use the term bitch/bitches as in the female version of a dog)

Arrrrghh!
You got me talking after a long time. Congrats. You need to understand some things
1) As horrible as generalizations are, we all make them.
2) People view the world based on their experiences.
3) You cannot deny the fact that in the black experience, either back home or in diaspora, there is a lot of cheating. A loooooot. On the part of men. Yes, they are sleeping with someone, but they are also breaking someone's heart and destroying their trust.

If you have never been betrayed, its hard to understand the bitterness that it can cause, and the way it can sour your attitude towards the rest of the world in general. Have you ever watched "Diary of a mad black woman"? Tyler Perry is kinda corny, but he hit the nail on the head.
Our black brothers need to stop complaining about the names that they are called, and prove themselves trustworthy. Make sure your woman is not calling you a dog, that is the only way you can contribute to making the problem go away. But to expect a woman who has been betrayed to trust blindly? Naaaaah.

Originally Posted by funmo

Arrrrghh!
You got me talking after a long time. Congrats. You need to understand some things
1) As horrible as generalizations are, we all make them.
2) People view the world based on their experiences.
3) You cannot deny the fact that in the black experience, either back home or in diaspora, there is a lot of cheating. A loooooot. On the part of men. Yes, they are sleeping with someone, but they are also breaking someone's heart and destroying their trust.

If you have never been betrayed, its hard to understand the bitterness that it can cause, and the way it can sour your attitude towards the rest of the world in general. Have you ever watched "Diary of a mad black woman"? Tyler Perry is kinda corny, but he hit the nail on the head.
Our black brothers need to stop complaining about the names that they are called, and prove themselves trustworthy. Make sure your woman is not calling you a dog, that is the only way you can contribute to making the problem go away. But to expect a woman who has been betrayed to trust blindly? Naaaaah.

You say when men sleep with someone they are breaking someone's heart? My question is, are they solely responsible? Are the women they sleep with not equally responsible for breaking this "other" person's heart too? How bout the women that break their husbands' /fiances' or partners' heart when they sleep with other men? Or are we going to assume that only men fool around? The fact that men don't often times say these things don't mean that they don't get jilted or duped or betrayed or heartbroken etc.

However, regardless of one's experiences can you truly justify women calling men dogs or men calling women bitches? I am not saying that betrayals and heart breaks don't happen...but that certainly does not justify 90% or 60% (or whatever percentage we want to ascribe) of men being dogs. When ladies bandy these figures and statements about, do they include their dads, brothers, sons and uncles in these figures?? Do you ladies grow up in your homes viewing your dads/brothers/sons/uncles etc as dogs? Each time say your dad gets back from work do you say in your heart "Oh, the dog is back!"? Or is it a case of my family is ok it's the men in the next family that constitute the 90% that make up dogs??? I know i certainly don't see my mum/sister/aunty/daughter etc as bitches. And guess what, I know that there are women out there who specialise in breaking up homes. Does that make 60% of women bitches??? Not in my books!

2 more things. 1) @ the part highlighted in red, my dear, this is not specific to african/black homes. Men everywhere cheat...A LOT! and gues what, so do the women. But the calling men dogs aspect is very dominant amongst black folks. Check it out and you'll find out. 2). And oh yes, I have been betrayed (by a WOMAN!!!) and know the pain it can exact on one ... but trust me, if you allow it to make you bitter and sour to the extent that you view the world in that way, then that part is entirely your doing! One can choose to live in the past or leave the past behind and move to greater heights. My experience hasn't made me go about viewing every woman I see as a bitch/betrayer as that is hardly the truth. I say again...thoughts and what you focus on have a long way to do with what life offers you.

Yes men should work at proving themselves trustworthy; but whilst they are doing that, women should also hold a conference and advice themselves not to be loose ladies. If there are no women to fool around with, then there'll be no men fooling around. My dear, it's a 2 way thing. So everytime women call men dogs, they should remember that they are not only referring to themselves as bitches, but that they are calling their brothers, fathers, uncles, sons etc dogs as well.

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

...what does that make women, Errr....'Bitches'?

Why do some ladies/women feel they can just bandy the above statement about and at whim? I read in a thread how one lady said her friend reckons that 90% of men are 'Dogs' (it's no surprise then that she ended up with one, no pun intended, thoughts are powerful) and another poster responded - perhaps giving some credit to men - she retorts by saying 60% of men are dogs. Blimey! So let's go with the lesser figure...

If 60% of men are dogs, and we know "dogs" only mate with "bitches", what percentage of women are bitches then? I ask because that saying "men are dogs" is so pervasive amongst african/black women it's unnelievable. If men are dogs, are they dogs because they sleep with other men? If so, then shame on the women who sleep with them. But if women say men are dogs because they sleep around with other women, then we must agree that women are bitches too.

And if such a high proportion of men are dogs...then an equally high amount of women must be bitches whether knowingly or unknowingly. Dogs only sleep with bitches.

Why am I harping on someone asks? Because I feel it's time we stop propagating the silly statement/belief that men are not trustworthy. Am I saying that some men don't fool around? Absolutely not, some do, but so does women! Am I in support of men sleeping aroun? Absolutely not! But if men sleep around and we think we should generalise, then we must generalise and do so equally with the women. If there are no loose women whospread their legs, then there will be no men who fool around. In short, if men are dogs...and 60% of them are (as ridiculous as that is) then women are bitches and pardon me to say that (a higher percentage of women are!!!).

What you believe often determines what you get. If you think most men are dogs...the probability that you'll get a "dog" (that'll make you a bitch) is very high. If you don't believe it, keep on holding that view and keep on living!

(NB: I use the term bitch/bitches as in the female version of a dog)

Exactly my sentiments Mikey boy, and I don't waste time saying so, even publicly!

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

The fact that men don't often times say these things don't mean that they don't get jilted or duped or betrayed or heartbroken etc.

Ten percent of men who are not dogs are reckoned as wusses, and tell you what, modern day ladies love "dogs"; their interests are precursor to this amazing fact. The more women a man has at his beck and call, the harder women, and more of them, fall in love with him.

Originally Posted by Multioption

Ten percent of men who are not dogs are reckoned as wusses, and tell you what, modern day ladies love "dogs"; their interests are precursor to this amazing fact. The more women a man has at his beck and call, the harder women, and more of them, fall in love with him.

The harder he barks,the harder they fall.

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

You say when men sleep with someone they are breaking someone's heart? My question is, are they solely responsible? Are the women they sleep with not equally responsible for breaking this "other" person's heart too? How bout the women that break their husbands' /fiances' or partners' heart when they sleep with other men? Or are we going to assume that only men fool around? The fact that men don't often times say these things don't mean that they don't get jilted or duped or betrayed or heartbroken etc.

However, regardless of one's experiences can you truly justify women calling men dogs or men calling women bitches? I am not saying that betrayals and heart breaks don't happen...but that certainly does not justify 90% or 60% (or whatever percentage we want to ascribe) of men being dogs. When ladies bandy these figures and statements about, do they include their dads, brothers, sons and uncles in these figures?? Do you ladies grow up in your homes viewing your dads/brothers/sons/uncles etc as dogs? Each time say your dad gets back from work do you say in your heart "Oh, the dog is back!"? Or is it a case of my family is ok it's the men in the next family that constitute the 90% that make up dogs??? I know i certainly don't see my mum/sister/aunty/daughter etc as bitches. And guess what, I know that there are women out there who specialise in breaking up homes. Does that make 60% of women bitches??? Not in my books!

2 more things. 1) @ the part highlighted in red, my dear, this is not specific to african/black homes. Men everywhere cheat...A LOT! and gues what, so do the women. But the calling men dogs aspect is very dominant amongst black folks. Check it out and you'll find out. 2). And oh yes, I have been betrayed (by a WOMAN!!!) and know the pain it can exact on one ... but trust me, if you allow it to make you bitter and sour to the extent that you view the world in that way, then that part is entirely your doing! One can choose to live in the past or leave the past behind and move to greater heights. My experience hasn't made me go about viewing every woman I see as a bitch/betrayer as that is hardly the truth. I say again...thoughts and what you focus on have a long way to do with what life offers you.

Yes men should work at proving themselves trustworthy; but whilst they are doing that, women should also hold a conference and advice themselves not to be loose ladies. If there are no women to fool around with, then there'll be no men fooling around. My dear, it's a 2 way thing. So everytime women call men dogs, they should remember that they are not only referring to themselves as bitches, but that they are calling their brothers, fathers, uncles, sons etc dogs as well.

Okay Ola M, not all men are dogs, and not all black men cheat. But some men are dogs, and some of them cheat with (yup you guessed right) bitches. Happy now? Some of us are lucky to have decent men in our lives. Many women have never had that experience. Their dad cheated and beat on their mom, and they have repeated the cycle, and so will their daughters. They are angry, bitter and disillusioned. You are speaking (I guess) from the position of a honorable black man who has the scriptures to help him get past anger and bitterness. Lots of these women do not have that. Imagine being violated by a pedeophile in their youth, and having men not loving and nourishing them in their adulthood, but continuing to violate their trust and their emotions. You cannot take all the name calling personally. Its just a symptom of their rage and their pain. And it dissipates when they find a good man. This is a very complicated, very convulated issue and we do it no justice when we just reduce it to baseless name calling. At the root of all those names is a lot of pain, anger, rage, betrayal. Unfortunately, thus shall it be for eternity. Here's my advice, you find a woman who feels that way, work hard on changing her mind. That's one less for the "men are dogs team'!

Originally Posted by funmo

Okay Ola M, not all men are dogs, and not all black men cheat. But some men are dogs, and some of them cheat with (yup you guessed right) bitches. Happy now? Some of us are lucky to have decent men in our lives. Many women have never had that experience. Their dad cheated and beat on their mom, and they have repeated the cycle, and so will their daughters. They are angry, bitter and disillusioned. You are speaking (I guess) from the position of a honorable black man who has the scriptures to help him get past anger and bitterness. Lots of these women do not have that. Imagine being violated by a pedeophile in their youth, and having men not loving and nourishing them in their adulthood, but continuing to violate their trust and their emotions. You cannot take all the name calling personally. Its just a symptom of their rage and their pain. And it dissipates when they find a good man. This is a very complicated, very convulated issue and we do it no justice when we just reduce it to baseless name calling. At the root of all those names is a lot of pain, anger, rage, betrayal. Unfortunately, thus shall it be for eternity. Here's my advice, you find a woman who feels that way, work hard on changing her mind. That's one less for the "men are dogs team'!

No one is reducing anyone's painful experience(s) to mere name calling be they Women OR Men. Having gone through different kinds of painful experiences myself (with life, work, familt relationship etc) I'll be the last person to attempt to reduce peoples pain and anger to mere name calling. Having said that, I'll also be the first to encourage people never to let their past experiences blind their minds to the very many wonderful opportunities that life has for them in all areas. Every individual has a choice to either live in the past and let their past define/determine their future OR learn from their painful past experiences, leave it behind and carve out a better future for themselves.

As per the part highlighted in blue, trust me, I don't take name calling personally, I am merely concerened about how this wrong notion perpetrates itself amongst our folks. Women are brought up to instinctively think that men cannot be faithful, or that they are dogs, or that there are no good men. is it then any surprise that some ladies go into relationships with no trust, or that others; despite the glaring fact that a guy does not have their good at heart make excuses for them and keep on in a relationship with them, or yet others say well there are no good men around so if my man cheats I'll just accept it as the norm. That your father cheated on and beat on your mum (as painful and disgusting as that experience is) does not mean that the likelyhood of the next man you meet will cheat on you is 90% or even 60% at that.

As per the highlighted in brown, any woman who feels that way will have to deal with it on their own. That's life. We all have differing experiences and challenges that we must learn to overcome ON OUR OWN! Yes people might advise you and be there 4 u, but at the end of the day, u have 2 come thru it urself. All I'll say to them is, either you change your thinking or as sure as the heaven remains all you'll keep attracting to yourself is men that are dogs.

And honey, dogs are only drawn to bitches... So if you don't want dogs, loose the bitch identity/personality!

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

No one is reducing anyone's painful experience(s) to mere name calling be they Women OR Men. Having gone through different kinds of painful experiences myself (with life, work, familt relationship etc) I'll be the last person to attempt to reduce peoples pain and anger to mere name calling. Having said that, I'll also be the first to encourage people never to let their past experiences blind their minds to the very many wonderful opportunities that life has for them in all areas. Every individual has a choice to either live in the past and let their past define/determine their future OR learn from their painful past experiences, leave it behind and carve out a better future for themselves.

As per the part highlighted in blue, trust me, I don't take name calling personally, I am merely concerened about how this wrong notion perpetrates itself amongst our folks. Women are brought up to instinctively think that men cannot be faithful, or that they are dogs, or that there are no good men. is it then any surprise that some ladies go into relationships with no trust, or that others; despite the glaring fact that a guy does not have their good at heart make excuses for them and keep on in a relationship with them, or yet others say well there are no good men around so if my man cheats I'll just accept it as the norm. That your father cheated on and beat on your mum (as painful and disgusting as that experience is) does not mean that the likelyhood of the next man you meet will cheat on you is 90% or even 60% at that.

As per the highlighted in brown, any woman who feels that way will have to deal with it on their own. That's life. We all have differing experiences and challenges that we must learn to overcome ON OUR OWN! Yes people might advise you and be there 4 u, but at the end of the day, u have 2 come thru it urself. All I'll say to them is, either you change your thinking or as sure as the heaven remains all you'll keep attracting to yourself is men that are dogs.

And honey, dogs are only drawn to bitches... So if you don't want dogs, loose the bitch identity/personality!

Yes, you are right, we gotta encourage people to get past their pain. But you have to admit that past experience will shape future perception. That is just the way it is for human beings. As the memory dulls and the experiences get better, people change (or not, depending on the individual). But in general people change. Please note that I am not trying to make excuses for anyone wallowing in self pity. We have all learned through hard experience that that will not work. But it takes time for people to get there. What I am trying to tell you is this (lemme spell it out): next time you meet a "men are dogs" advocate, you know immediately that you are meeting someone who has pain. A lot of pain. Don't look at her with annoyance (or retort with that makes you a bitch!). Look at her with compassion. I know people who have never, ever met a faithful man. They cannot even believe that they exist. Why is that? Uncles, neighbors, fathers, grandfathers - all the significant men in their lives all cheated. How do you want them to view life? What paradigm will they have?

I have also had this conversation about black men and cheating several times, with several people, with different levels of spirituality – and though I have no figures, let me tell you my unscientific findings. In African (actually black culture in general), male cheating is still excused and female cheating is still frowned upon. What does that mean practically? It does not mean that women do not cheat – they do. But it is not something that our society will encourage or applaud. It does not mean that all men cheat – they don’t, but it is something that our society excuses and winks at. So if I were to take an unscientific poll, I would say that vastly more men cheat than women. In my own circle of friends for instance, I am sitting here thinking of 10 of the friends I grew up with, and 8 of their dads cheated, had illegitimate children, ati bee bee lo! I am sure that my experience can be multiplied over and over. Does that mean that anyone does not exist whose circle only includes 2 out of 10 cheats? I am sure there are, but I bet you that they are a statistical anomaly.

What is my point? The name calling does not exist in a vaccum. It is a big issue. Its cultural issue, a human rights issue – speaking to the intrinsic value we place on and the rights we give to women in our society. And the name calling speaks to something deeper: its women crying – “black men: value us, love us, cherish us, protect us.” Do not abuse us or cheat on us, like our fathers did.

You say the name calling should stop and the behavior will change. I say change the behavior and the name calling will stop. Chicken or egg, which comes first.

Let me tell you something, and I am being very honest here: I know women cheat. I have heard of it, but I have personally never been involved in a situation where a woman cheated. But I know hundreds of male cheats. Old bosses at work, professors, classmates, friends, etc, etc. You cannot trivialize it by saying women cheat too. Yeah, but what are the percentages. Ours is still a paternalistic, male oriented society. Women still don’t have the right to cheat that much.

I am sure that the numbers of cheats (women) are different in the ajebutter circles. But me I be ajepako. I don’t know bourgouis people.
In conclusion, abi in summary ni, give my sisters a break abeg. They have been through so much. Let them vent. Hopefully, they will meet men who will break this horrible stereotypes. They are mad, and in my opinion, they have a right to be.

Originally Posted by funmo

Yes, you are right, we gotta encourage people to get past their pain. But you have to admit that past experience will shape future perception. That is just the way it is for human beings. As the memory dulls and the experiences get better, people change (or not, depending on the individual). But in general people change. Please note that I am not trying to make excuses for anyone wallowing in self pity. We have all learned through hard experience that that will not work. But it takes time for people to get there. What I am trying to tell you is this (lemme spell it out): next time you meet a "men are dogs" advocate, you know immediately that you are meeting someone who has pain. A lot of pain. Don't look at her with annoyance (or retort with that makes you a bitch!). Look at her with compassion. I know people who have never, ever met a faithful man. They cannot even believe that they exist. Why is that? Uncles, neighbors, fathers, grandfathers - all the significant men in their lives all cheated. How do you want them to view life? What paradigm will they have?

I have also had this conversation about black men and cheating several times, with several people, with different levels of spirituality – and though I have no figures, let me tell you my unscientific findings. In African (actually black culture in general), male cheating is still excused and female cheating is still frowned upon. What does that mean practically? It does not mean that women do not cheat – they do. But it is not something that our society will encourage or applaud. It does not mean that all men cheat – they don’t, but it is something that our society excuses and winks at. So if I were to take an unscientific poll, I would say that vastly more men cheat than women. In my own circle of friends for instance, I am sitting here thinking of 10 of the friends I grew up with, and 8 of their dads cheated, had illegitimate children, ati bee bee lo! I am sure that my experience can be multiplied over and over. Does that mean that anyone does not exist whose circle only includes 2 out of 10 cheats? I am sure there are, but I bet you that they are a statistical anomaly.

What is my point? The name calling does not exist in a vaccum. It is a big issue. Its cultural issue, a human rights issue – speaking to the intrinsic value we place on and the rights we give to women in our society. And the name calling speaks to something deeper: its women crying – “black men: value us, love us, cherish us, protect us.” Do not abuse us or cheat on us, like our fathers did.

You say the name calling should stop and the behavior will change. I say change the behavior and the name calling will stop. Chicken or egg, which comes first.

Let me tell you something, and I am being very honest here: I know women cheat. I have heard of it, but I have personally never been involved in a situation where a woman cheated. But I know hundreds of male cheats. Old bosses at work, professors, classmates, friends, etc, etc. You cannot trivialize it by saying women cheat too. Yeah, but what are the percentages. Ours is still a paternalistic, male oriented society. Women still don’t have the right to cheat that much.

I am sure that the numbers of cheats (women) are different in the ajebutter circles. But me I be ajepako. I don’t know bourgouis people.
In conclusion, abi in summary ni, give my sisters a break abeg. They have been through so much. Let them vent. Hopefully, they will meet men who will break this horrible stereotypes. They are mad, and in my opinion, they have a right to be.

Very good and valid points you made up there. However, let me quickly address the highlighted before i respond to the rest of your post. I am not saying stop the name calling and then see a change, read my posts again, and you'll find that even though I may be ranting against the name calling as it were, my main point is Not to stop the name calling (as that in itself does not achieve anything seein the person still holds the same view which consequently influences their actions) but more importantly to change their paradigms. Stop seeing all (or most) men as cheats and propagating the same. Then you'll suddenly see clearly the amount of "non-cheats" of men that there are.

As per the fact that 8 of the 10 fathers of your friends were cheats. This is my response. (Please note that I do not trivialise the experiences of your friends in anyway, but permit me to be frank and sincere). Men and women are different in the way they react. Women tend to share their thoughts with the whole world a lot more than men do. By that I mean, when a woman gets betrayed, almost every one around her knows about it (i.e. in the present and the future). And because of the nature of women, perhaps their way of dealing with it as you posit is to "be mad, as they have a right to be" which includes calling men dogs. Have you ever considered that men are different? Perhaps the way a man responds to being betrayed (and I am in no way excusing this behaviour) is to set out and break as many women's hearts as possible. You referred me to a film earlier, I also refer you to a film also (i'll get the name of it for you shortly) but the gist of it was, 3 men were sampled. After giving their hearts to 3 women, they were let down, and they vowed to sleep with as many women as they can find because they adjudged that women were bitches. But you know what, they were made dogs by bitches. What's my point, could it be that some of these men who are dogs also are expressing their past pains and anger by being this way, just like your "sisters" are expressing theirs by being mean and untrusting towards men?

Forget about films, let me share real life experiences of men with you. I know a guy who was married to a lady and had a child with her, suddenly the lady packs her things one day and says its over. She moves out and moves in with another guy and the following month they relocate to america. It turns out later that she had been sleeping with the guy all along. She left her son and the man that loved her heart-broken. Or let's use my case as an example, my ex left me for another man too... I was distraught, and beside myself for close to 2 years but I got my life back... Now she's married to a different man from the one she left me for. But guess what, if in the future (and I don't pray that this happens to her) her current husband cheats on her, guess what people in your fold will say, "Men are cheats!". But they won't know the background of the woman.

Even now, for those who get close to me once I mention that I had been married b4 and not anymore...the first thing they ask me is "what did you do to her?" It's almost inconceivable to them that women do break men's hearts too. Is it not this kind of "90% of men are dogs" mentality that allow this kind of thinking to go on? Or should I mention the case of another friend's friend who got beaten so badly by his wife and then eventually she leaves him for another man. Now it turns out that what goes round comes round because the woman after having a child for the 2nd man (who all the time was also sleeping around) she gets abandoned by him for another woman. But Funmo, guess what your "sisters" will say, the man is a "dog". They'll forget about the man this "saint" of theirs beat and betrayed and focus on the man who betrayed her.

My dear, stories after stories abound. Such is life. Men are no better than women and vice-versa. Tell me, out of the 8 women that got betrayed by their husbnads that u listed up there, how many of them do you know their past in details? Do you know what men they've let down in the past? (And I am not neccessarily saying that all betrayed women have also betrayed men in the past). But my point is, we don't know. So the fact that men don't harp on about what befell them does not mean they don't get betrayed. Also, there's also the fact that some men are driven down the betrayal line by their spouses! (Not an excuse for infidelity, but it's the truth).

And Funmo trust me, when I meet women in the "men are dogs" camp as you put it, I don't look at then with anger. I tend to deal with them the same way I do when I meet men who fall in the "women are bitches" camp. I challenge both the men and the women to change their thinking. Guess what I say to the men, "if she is/was a bitch, then that makes you a dog!". The same is what I say to the women. It's the same way I tell people who split up from their ex and start calling them nasty names (e.g. he/she is a fool, well gues what, I simply tell them that they must be fools too for getting in a relationship with a fool). They may hate me for it, but there's no arguing with it.

What am I saying, whilst people have their pains and these can have devastating effects on their life, I always encourage men and women to rise above these pains/experiences. Don't live in the past. There are good men out there just as there are good women out there. Even if the experience of your whole household is negative, you can turn it around. Instead of sitting around waiting for a man/woman to change his/her way, you decide to live above your past pains.

And whilst I agree that there are women who have never known good and honest men be it in their immediate family or otherwise, I also know that they can experience good men without having to wait for the men to "prove" themselves whilst they hold a "men are dogs view". Lastly, can I say that if a woman keeps attracting to herself unfaithful men time after time after time then perhaps it's time for her to stop blaming every man and their dog, and take some time out to look at herself first. Is there something about her that attracts these kind of men, her disposition perhaps, her desires, her criteria, her demeanor? Let's face it and I have said it before, DOGS ONLY GO AFTER BITCHES!. Same applies to men as well.

Originally Posted by OlaMichael

Very good and valid points you made up there. However, let me quickly address the highlighted before i respond to the rest of your post. I am not saying stop the name calling and then see a change, read my posts again, and you'll find that even though I may be ranting against the name calling as it were, my main point is Not to stop the name calling (as that in itself does not achieve anything seein the person still holds the same view which consequently influences their actions) but more importantly to change their paradigms. Stop seeing all (or most) men as cheats and propagating the same. Then you'll suddenly see clearly the amount of "non-cheats" of men that there are.

As per the fact that 8 of the 10 fathers of your friends were cheats. This is my response. (Please note that I do not trivialise the experiences of your friends in anyway, but permit me to be frank and sincere). Men and women are different in the way they react. Women tend to share their thoughts with the whole world a lot more than men do. By that I mean, when a woman gets betrayed, almost every one around her knows about it (i.e. in the present and the future). And because of the nature of women, perhaps their way of dealing with it as you posit is to "be mad, as they have a right to be" which includes calling men dogs. Have you ever considered that men are different? Perhaps the way a man responds to being betrayed (and I am in no way excusing this behaviour) is to set out and break as many women's hearts as possible. You referred me to a film earlier, I also refer you to a film also (i'll get the name of it for you shortly) but the gist of it was, 3 men were sampled. After giving their hearts to 3 women, they were let down, and they vowed to sleep with as many women as they can find because they adjudged that women were bitches. But you know what, they were made dogs by bitches. What's my point, could it be that some of these men who are dogs also are expressing their past pains and anger by being this way, just like your "sisters" are expressing theirs by being mean and untrusting towards men?

Forget about films, let me share real life experiences of men with you. I know a guy who was married to a lady and had a child with her, suddenly the lady packs her things one day and says its over. She moves out and moves in with another guy and the following month they relocate to america. It turns out later that she had been sleeping with the guy all along. She left her son and the man that loved her heart-broken. Or let's use my case as an example, my ex left me for another man too... I was distraught, and beside myself for close to 2 years but I got my life back... Now she's married to a different man from the one she left me for. But guess what, if in the future (and I don't pray that this happens to her) her current husband cheats on her, guess what people in your fold will say, "Men are cheats!". But they won't know the background of the woman.

Even now, for those who get close to me once I mention that I had been married b4 and not anymore...the first thing they ask me is "what did you do to her?" It's almost inconceivable to them that women do break men's hearts too. Is it not this kind of "90% of men are dogs" mentality that allow this kind of thinking to go on? Or should I mention the case of another friend's friend who got beaten so badly by his wife and then eventually she leaves him for another man. Now it turns out that what goes round comes round because the woman after having a child for the 2nd man (who all the time was also sleeping around) she gets abandoned by him for another woman. But Funmo, guess what your "sisters" will say, the man is a "dog". They'll forget about the man this "saint" of theirs beat and betrayed and focus on the man who betrayed her.

My dear, stories after stories abound. Such is life. Men are no better than women and vice-versa. Tell me, out of the 8 women that got betrayed by their husbnads that u listed up there, how many of them do you know their past in details? Do you know what men they've let down in the past? (And I am not neccessarily saying that all betrayed women have also betrayed men in the past). But my point is, we don't know. So the fact that men don't harp on about what befell them does not mean they don't get betrayed. Also, there's also the fact that some men are driven down the betrayal line by their spouses! (Not an excuse for infidelity, but it's the truth).

And Funmo trust me, when I meet women in the "men are dogs" camp as you put it, I don't look at then with anger. I tend to deal with them the same way I do when I meet men who fall in the "women are bitches" camp. I challenge both the men and the women to change their thinking. Guess what I say to the men, "if she is/was a bitch, then that makes you a dog!". The same is what I say to the women. It's the same way I tell people who split up from their ex and start calling them nasty names (e.g. he/she is a fool, well gues what, I simply tell them that they must be fools too for getting in a relationship with a fool). They may hate me for it, but there's no arguing with it.

What am I saying, whilst people have their pains and these can have devastating effects on their life, I always encourage men and women to rise above these pains/experiences. Don't live in the past. There are good men out there just as there are good women out there. Even if the experience of your whole household is negative, you can turn it around. Instead of sitting around waiting for a man/woman to change his/her way, you decide to live above your past pains.

And whilst I agree that there are women who have never known good and honest men be it in their immediate family or otherwise, I also know that they can experience good men without having to wait for the men to "prove" themselves whilst they hold a "men are dogs view". Lastly, can I say that if a woman keeps attracting to herself unfaithful men time after time after time then perhaps it's time for her to stop blaming every man and their dog, and take some time out to look at herself first. Is there something about her that attracts these kind of men, her disposition perhaps, her desires, her criteria, her demeanor? Let's face it and I have said it before, DOGS ONLY GO AFTER BITCHES!. Same applies to men as well.

Wow! I am loving this conversation. I think what it tells me is that we all have pain and everyone's viewpoint is different. And to individuals involved, the averages, percentages and likelihoods take a backseat to their own realities. So your reality, in hard facts, is that women cheat as much. It has not been my experience or my reality. So, my sympathies lie with the women because I have seen their pain, and yours lie with the men because you have felt their pain – once again, experience coloring viewpoints.

But while I love playing devil’s advocate, you are preaching to the choir. I agree that all this rage, anger and distrust is unhealthy, and that people need to make wiser decisions and pick better partners. I tell my girls, if women did not demand players, they would not exist. The supply of dogs is often times fed by the demand for them. I concede all that.

However, you artfully dodged my cultural point. I want you to address it. Oga OlaM, can you categorically deny that our society and culture wink at male infidelity while excoriating female cheats? Your serve!

Originally Posted by funmo

Wow! I am loving this conversation. I think what it tells me is that we all have pain and everyone's viewpoint is different. And to individuals involved, the averages, percentages and likelihoods take a backseat to their own realities. So your reality, in hard facts, is that women cheat as much. It has not been my experience or my reality. So, my sympathies lie with the women because I have seen their pain, and yours lie with the men because you have felt their pain – once again, experience coloring viewpoints.

But while I love playing devil’s advocate, you are preaching to the choir. I agree that all this rage, anger and distrust is unhealthy, and that people need to make wiser decisions and pick better partners. I tell my girls, if women did not demand players, they would not exist. The supply of dogs is often times fed by the demand for them. I concede all that.

However, you artfully dodged my cultural point. I want you to address it. Oga OlaM, can you categorically deny that our society and culture wink at male infidelity while excoriating female cheats? Your serve!

I am enjoying and have enjoyed this discourse too. It's good to be able to air one's opinion freely and exchange views on issues here on NR without the usual misunderstandings, misconceptions and shenanigans that usually takes place here. It is somewhat refreshing.

Okay back to the discourse. Let me correct you on the highlighted. Actually my sympathies lie with both genders. with anyone that has experienced pain. So even though I started a topic about women calling men dogs, I am equally against men calling women bitches too. I suppose I am just trying to draw attention to the fact that 90% or 60% of men will not be dogs if an equal amount of women or even more don't make themselves available to be bitches. I am effectively saying rather than propagating a wrong paradigm, we should look at learning from our experiences and become better people. Be it MAN or WOMAN.

To your question, no I am not avoiding/dodging it. In fact I thought I had addressed it in passing. Yes our society does that and it is wrong. But you know what, the reason a lot of men get away with stuff like that in our society is because a lot of women allow them too. Otherwise how do you explain a woman getting into a relationship with a married man, who then makes her a second wife and still continues to sleep around after 2 wives? and all the woman can say is "she did it because 90% of men are dogs"? And the woman in question is supposedy "xtian". I can understand if a muslim holds this view since islam allows for polygamy but a xtian?

Now tell me, if the woman herself feels men have no choice but to cheat or that men are "built" to cheat then isn't she helping to propagate a wrong notion? Our society winks at it because those who should be frowning and making the most noise against this shameful act are the very once excusing it away with the mindset that they hold; and unfortunately the only noise they make is the tired "all men are dogs" noise.

I give you another example, One of my female friends has a friend who is now married to a guy she was dating. Now all the time they were dating, she was aware of the fact that this guy was cheating on her and sleeping around. He was caught by her not once or twice. Yet she stupidly allowed this guy back even without him apologising. The guy just comes back and resumes his role like nothing happened. Despite her friend sitting her down and talking with her several times. Now when it happened the first time and he got away with it, then the 2nd, don't you think she's helped propagate the fact that our men feel they can get away with this act? Or if he cheats on her now that they are married, tell me, should she cry foul??? Has he not shown her that he is a dog? And has she not allowed herself to be used as a bitch by turning a blind eye to the fact that this man is a dog all the while giving the excuse that she doesn't think she can get a better person?

As long as our women hold this view (and I am not saying the whole responsibility lies with the women - i think it's 50-50) then men will keep getting away with murder. Funmo, how do u explain a woman whose husband has betrayed their love with another woman and it's this betrayed woman's very own mother and sometimes friends who persuade her to take him back when the man clearly hasn't shown that he is sorry or is ready to change, and the only reason they give is "think about your children". In order words, the woman should ignore her feelings and the pain she's gone through and the fact that the man is not sorry for what he did and just let him back in. As long as that goes on, then our society will keep excusing men who cheat.

Bottom line is, we need to educate both men and women that cheating is wrong. And denounce it in both sexes and more strongly in the men.

I admire your courage, OlaM.

Many black men walk and think with their tail.