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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2006, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bluestocking
Please Benin, dont let's even start.
What's economic reform if people are dying of poverty and hunger right now? what's my concern with what Nigeria will look like in 15 or 20 years when i'm not even sure of seeing the next day? What's Banking reform to me when 5 of my friends who used to work in banks are now out of jobs or have been forced to take a lower salary because the banks they worked for couldnt meet up with Soludo's capital base requirements? Tell me is that growth? shouldnt something that claims to reform have a human face?
Massively expanding telecommunications where only a few people benefit? MTN came to Nigeria and declared an unprecedented profit, yet telecommunication is still unaffordable to the majority of the populace?
What's so great about OBJ's policies when i cant be sure that i wont be robbed in a bus on my way from work? Or where a policeman could shoot me just because he asked me out and i refused? or where from day to day there's no electricity? or good roads or even potable water?
You say there's a major decrease in inflation, yet last year Nigeria's inflation rate was 18.4% percent? A bag of rice was 5000 in 2004 but by 2005 it was 6,500, please explain to me or even the common man on the street how that is a major decrease in inflation?
Or do you wanna talk about unemployment? I dont readily have the figures for unemployement rates but i can assure that there are absolutely no jobs in naija. last year my sister went to write an entrance test into one of these newly consolidated banks and there were more than 10000,as in ten thousand,people who came to write this test and this was in just one venue in lagos. Now tell me, how many positions could this bank have had? that at least 10,000 applicants would apply?
Our major steel production plants have been revamped yet we still import steel products? Or you wanna talk about our refineries?

You wanna talk about education? I recently conducted a research in some universities and i had the students fill out questionnaires in thier own words, boy! was i appalled? Final year students who can write comprehensible sentences in english? People who cant spell words as simple as talk? BTW do you know the percentage of the budget that was voted for education last year? 10%? 5%? No it was 1%!!

what's the launch of a satelite to the average man on the street? what does it mean to him in real terms? It's just an ego trip for the govt, that's all.

Look all these reforms look good on paper but you have to experience it to know what it's like. Bottomline is, maybe in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years things will be better but right now nothing is really happening, it's just the resillient nature of the Nigerian that's making us survive from day to day. But one day people will run out of patience and that's what's happening now.

I'd love for you to come and live here for just one year, dont come and live in any high-brow area o, or live in abuja o. Come to lagos and see what's it's like trying to survive from day to day, only then will i listen to you when you talk about how good the govt's policies are. QED!
Wow, I guess you toooold me!! Good job, sis. Your response was excellent although predictable, and I do have a response to it, yet I'm rush rush today so I'll get to it later tonight, I hope!!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2006, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Benin
Wow, I guess you toooold me!! Good job, sis. Your response was excellent although predictable, and I do have a response to it, yet I'm rush rush today so I'll get to it later tonight, I hope!!
u hope? erh, hmmm, na where you say you dey go again? na wa o
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2006, 05:42 PM
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Na wa oooh !!! Abeg make una dey talk the matter sha ...my own be say make dem release Asari Dokubo ...dats all !!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2006, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bluestocking
Please Benin, dont let's even start.
What's economic reform if people are dying of poverty and hunger right now? what's my concern with what Nigeria will look like in 15 or 20 years when i'm not even sure of seeing the next day? What's Banking reform to me when 5 of my friends who used to work in banks are now out of jobs or have been forced to take a lower salary because the banks they worked for couldnt meet up with Soludo's capital base requirements? Tell me is that growth? shouldnt something that claims to reform have a human face?
Massively expanding telecommunications where only a few people benefit? MTN came to Nigeria and declared an unprecedented profit, yet telecommunication is still unaffordable to the majority of the populace?
What's so great about OBJ's policies when i cant be sure that i wont be robbed in a bus on my way from work? Or where a policeman could shoot me just because he asked me out and i refused? or where from day to day there's no electricity? or good roads or even potable water?
You say there's a major decrease in inflation, yet last year Nigeria's inflation rate was 18.4% percent? A bag of rice was 5000 in 2004 but by 2005 it was 6,500, please explain to me or even the common man on the street how that is a major decrease in inflation?
Or do you wanna talk about unemployment? I dont readily have the figures for unemployement rates but i can assure that there are absolutely no jobs in naija. last year my sister went to write an entrance test into one of these newly consolidated banks and there were more than 10000,as in ten thousand,people who came to write this test and this was in just one venue in lagos. Now tell me, how many positions could this bank have had? that at least 10,000 applicants would apply?
Our major steel production plants have been revamped yet we still import steel products? Or you wanna talk about our refineries?

You wanna talk about education? I recently conducted a research in some universities and i had the students fill out questionnaires in thier own words, boy! was i appalled? Final year students who can write comprehensible sentences in english? People who cant spell words as simple as talk? BTW do you know the percentage of the budget that was voted for education last year? 10%? 5%? No it was 1%!!

what's the launch of a satelite to the average man on the street? what does it mean to him in real terms? It's just an ego trip for the govt, that's all.

Look all these reforms look good on paper but you have to experience it to know what it's like. Bottomline is, maybe in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years things will be better but right now nothing is really happening, it's just the resillient nature of the Nigerian that's making us survive from day to day. But one day people will run out of patience and that's what's happening now.

I'd love for you to come and live here for just one year, dont come and live in any high-brow area o, or live in abuja o. Come to lagos and see what's it's like trying to survive from day to day, only then will i listen to you when you talk about how good the govt's policies are. QED!


Quote:
What's economic reform if people are dying of poverty and hunger right now?
Well if people are dying of poverty and hunger in a certain area, that means something is wrong with the system in which that area is run by. If something is wrong with the system, then obviously the system must be dissected and then reorganized in another way in which can solve the problems in which the old could not, or in other words, the system needs to be reformed.

Until that is done, the starvation, lack of jobs, poor schools, high crime, bad roads, lack of proper public transportation and more will remain as is. So what's good about reform at a time when people are dying of poverty and hunger, is that reform gives action to changes in which restructures the mechanisms in society in which have caused such horrid situations to not only come about, but to remain in place for so long. Nice question though?

Quote:
what's my concern with what Nigeria will look like in 15 or 20 years when i'm not even sure of seeing the next day?
Aaaaah yes!! The ol what about me, right now? Forget everyone else down the road, question. We'll... in short, if you die tomorrow, then obviously you weren't meant to experience the renowned results of the reformers, and I'll pity your plight. Simple as that. If your parents said to themselves, what's their concern with how you will be living and functioning 15 or 20 years down the road after your birth when they're not even sure that they'll be around to see tomorrow, in what type of shape do you think you'll be in today?

A NEW system is being structured for the nation and in the same way the past one, flooded with instability, didn't ingrain itself into the society over night... neither will the new one. Have patience, it's a virtue remember?

Quote:
What's Banking reform to me when 5 of my friends who used to work in banks are now out of jobs or have been forced to take a lower salary because the banks they worked for couldn't meet up with Soludo's capital base requirements? Tell me is that growth? shouldnt something that claims to reform have a human face?
WARNING!!! This may be hurtful to read, but it's the truth and nothing but the truth!!

Lets start by looking at the definition of REFRORM:

As you can see, the general concept of reform is to eliminate, downsize and or expand mechanisms in which can bring about the desired results demanded. If the jobs helled by your 5 friends were eliminated via the reform of the banking system, one can only conclude that the jobs in which they helled were overkill in system.. Overkill leads to a deplenished till.

A deplenished till can grind a company or industry down to an unproductive standstill. The ultimate goal of economic reform is to establish an strong economy; the strongest type of economy is a diversified one. To build a diversified economy, a mass of entrepreneurs will be needed to build it; yet they can't get started unless their projects are properly financed.

The best, most reliable source of finance are banks, yet a load of banks holding little more than pocket change, after being ground to a near halt via improprieties in their system, like (((financing an overstaffed workforce))), will be in no shape to dish out money to Tom, **** & Harry when they come asking for loot to build a business, but that's not to say that they wont... cause they will. But of course do to their shortage of loot to back up their loses in a failed investment, along with some other factors... they'll put a sky high interest rate on the loans in which would more than likely scare Tom, **** and Harry away, and jobs in which could have been established to employ those folks in which are contributing to the over-employment of the bank that scared them away, lost to a lack of proper structure in the banks operations. See how that works?

Yes it may be painful in the beginning for your friends, but in the end the reforms in which resulted in the lost of your friends' jobs should eventually bring about many more to replace them. No pain, no gain is what they say!!

Now, dose that look like growth to you?? And any reforms in which are put forth to improve the lives of humanity... and is worth it's salt... so to say, better have a human face on it, else it's just a bogus reform.

Quote:
Massively expanding telecommunications where only a few people benefit? MTN came to Nigeria and declared an unprecedented profit, yet telecommunication is still unaffordable to the majority of the populace?
Well, as you have so eloquently stated, there are ((NO)) jobs in Naija, if few people are working... then that must mean that there's few people with the finances to buy a cell, and pay for its service to remain on. If you're going to play the blame game, at least play fairly. It's no fault of MTN, Glo, or the other two or 3 providers that sooo many Nigerians are out of work and thus have no money to pay for their services.

What do you want them to do, give it away for free?? No job, no money, no celly service!! Simple as that!! Now in actuality, in regards to this situation... the communication companies should actually be commended in this respect, in that their operations in the nation have lead to the creation of hundreds or even thousands of jobs in the nation, with many more being created via their operations... every year or less. Don't make them out to be a problem to the solution when in fact they are a Claire additive to it.

Quote:
What's so great about OBJ's policies when i cant be sure that i wont be robbed in a bus on my way from work? Or where a policeman could shoot me just because he asked me out and i refused? or where from day to day there's no electricity? or good roads or even potable water?
Refer to the first part of the post for my answer to this.

Quote:
You say there's a major decrease in inflation, yet last year Nigeria's inflation rate was 18.4% percent? A bag of rice was 5000 in 2004 but by 2005 it was 6,500, please explain to me or even the common man on the street how that is a major decrease in inflation?
Pretty good stuff!! Hummm, well yeah the year ended with an inflation rate in the teens, as opposed to an inflation rate in 20 percentile range in the middle part of that year. Most folks would call that a good improvement. And as to why the inflation rate had gone up in 2005 from where it was in 2004, or even the early part of 2005; the reason is increased federal, bank and foriegn investment of funds into the market.

The government and others pumped more money into the economy than the economy was able to effectively manage at the rate in which they pumped it in. That caused economic inflation, in where the system is tricked into believing that the actual value of the nation's economy (GNP) and products available to the people is greater than what it really is, and this leads to increased prices as the market sends out false signals of that the population now has greater financial standing in which to support an equivalent increase in general prices of goods on. Prices go up, yet the people's salaries remain the same, and they get poorer real quick. ((That's a very basic, primitive description of the situation))

To solve this, the CBN must mop up the overflow of money in the economy, and this slowly reverses the inflation rise, and brings down the prices of general items. A properly reformed money market will put blocks and filters in place that will keep inflation from occurring or getting out of hand when it dose occur, and in the end, keep the people from suffering the ill effects of being at the mercy of roller coaster prices.

Many establishments will take advantage of an unstable inflation rate in order to cheat the public. When inflation goes up, they raise their prices, yet when it goes down they don't decrease their prices or they don't do so to the proper level. It's up to the gov. to check these improprieties.

Quote:
Our major steel production plants have been revamped yet we still import steel products? Or you wanna talk about our refineries?
Damn girl, they just got back into operation; at least let the stoves heat up before you start casting doubt on em. And the gov. is turning over the nation's refineries to private hands, and already its getting many good results, with some private refineries just beginning to be built, others to soon begin being built and some on verge of being finished.

Quote:
do you know the percentage of the budget that was voted for education last year? 10%? 5%? No it was 1%!!
Yes, I know. That was a big disappointment. And I'm sure those whom allowed that figure to go through feels the same way, as this years budget has a significant more allocated toward education.

Quote:
what's the launch of a satellite to the average man on the street? what does it mean to him in real terms? It's just an ego trip for the govt, that's all.
In the mid of Joblessness, rampant crime and daily hunger, daily clogged dilapidated roads and shortage of water... I would guess that the launch of a satellite would mean little to the average man on the street, that's why you have leaders. Leaders are in place to search out and implement the means in which to rid the people in whom they represent of the impediments in which bedevil them.

All of the ailments in which I've just mentioned and many more can be majorly resolved via the services in which satellites present. Any nation serious about rapidly improving the welfare of their people must employ the provisions of satellites into their operations. Satellites, can drastically aid farm production, population distribution and recording, road construction and transportation, crime via quickly spotting and tracking criminal elements, and their hideouts, thus saving time and money for the security elements, lives too.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2006, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by zelifat
This is a very simple issue to resolve. If na me be president, I'll just relocate my seat of power temporarily to the delta for a year, give direct contracts to the same folks that developed Dubai(another oil city that got it right), fund the development with the excess crude oil largess...chikena! everybody is happy. Anyone who has ever gone to Bayelsa and the delta region go understand their anger. Though if na me be the millitants, I'll deal with the governors and LG chairmen and all those 10 kobo 'elders' wey dey collect egunje behind from the oil companies. The money wey 'ALAMS, THE ESCAPEE GOV' chop (#124 billion) is enough to turn Bayelsa into a mini obodo oyibo.

I feel something in the air, naija go beta soon. Na turning point years we dey. I predict that by 2015 (that's my year of going back and it is divine), the country go don change well well. Una go see.
That's in ten years, if you want to see this come to pass, then you need to have the right people in all the govt. office but as long as you still have the same chicken heads running things, changes will never come by, I'm sorry to say. As you can see, govt. is like a family business, the same people seems to be occupying the seats.
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Old 01-24-2006, 06:03 PM
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With all these mentioned, did anyone benefit from this progress except for the govt. Has all this changed the lives of people by providing them with better lives. All this cassava slaes, telelcommunication growth and so on has not done anything to improve Naija by fatten the pockets that were already fat. I may be wrong o but this is just how I feel.


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Originally Posted by Benin
On paper, ey?? EFCC's progress is looking good only on paper? Naija rescheduled and chopped debt is good only on paper? (one you can relate to)...> The nation's restructured and strengthened banking system/industry is looking good only on paper? A massively expanded, telecommunications market and notoriety as one of the worlds fastest expanding telecommunication markets is looking good only on paper?

Rapid expansion of the nations cassava production and sales along with other staple crops is looking good only on paper? The creation of a space program, and launch of one very successful satellite, with another more powerful and productive one to go up this year and another, even stronger one, soon after that.. is looking good only on paper?

A major decrease in the nation's inflation rate over the past year or two.. is looking good only on paper? The return of the nation's two major steel production plants into operation after years of neglect... is looking good only on paper? I can go on and on with this, but why bother since it all only looks good on paper, right?
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Old 01-24-2006, 06:16 PM
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Thank you very much, exactly what I was thinking but couldn't have said it better. When I came to Naija to visit, I was so angry at the shape our airport was in. I couldn't wear white for 2hrs without changing, the roads were horrible and so on. If the govt. are not doing things like taking care of the roads, providing electricity to its citizens, providing sound education to its people, better health care system and so on, do you think they care about the day to day living of people in that country. These same people that are in the govt. now had been there for yrs even before OBJ because president, wasn't he president once before, all of them occupied a position where they could have been able to help the society but did zippo. If they didn't care then, do they care now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestocking
Please Benin, dont let's even start.
What's economic reform if people are dying of poverty and hunger right now? what's my concern with what Nigeria will look like in 15 or 20 years when i'm not even sure of seeing the next day? What's Banking reform to me when 5 of my friends who used to work in banks are now out of jobs or have been forced to take a lower salary because the banks they worked for couldnt meet up with Soludo's capital base requirements? Tell me is that growth? shouldnt something that claims to reform have a human face?
Massively expanding telecommunications where only a few people benefit? MTN came to Nigeria and declared an unprecedented profit, yet telecommunication is still unaffordable to the majority of the populace?
What's so great about OBJ's policies when i cant be sure that i wont be robbed in a bus on my way from work? Or where a policeman could shoot me just because he asked me out and i refused? or where from day to day there's no electricity? or good roads or even potable water?
You say there's a major decrease in inflation, yet last year Nigeria's inflation rate was 18.4% percent? A bag of rice was 5000 in 2004 but by 2005 it was 6,500, please explain to me or even the common man on the street how that is a major decrease in inflation?
Or do you wanna talk about unemployment? I dont readily have the figures for unemployement rates but i can assure that there are absolutely no jobs in naija. last year my sister went to write an entrance test into one of these newly consolidated banks and there were more than 10000,as in ten thousand,people who came to write this test and this was in just one venue in lagos. Now tell me, how many positions could this bank have had? that at least 10,000 applicants would apply?
Our major steel production plants have been revamped yet we still import steel products? Or you wanna talk about our refineries?

You wanna talk about education? I recently conducted a research in some universities and i had the students fill out questionnaires in thier own words, boy! was i appalled? Final year students who can write comprehensible sentences in english? People who cant spell words as simple as talk? BTW do you know the percentage of the budget that was voted for education last year? 10%? 5%? No it was 1%!!

what's the launch of a satelite to the average man on the street? what does it mean to him in real terms? It's just an ego trip for the govt, that's all.

Look all these reforms look good on paper but you have to experience it to know what it's like. Bottomline is, maybe in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years things will be better but right now nothing is really happening, it's just the resillient nature of the Nigerian that's making us survive from day to day. But one day people will run out of patience and that's what's happening now.

I'd love for you to come and live here for just one year, dont come and live in any high-brow area o, or live in abuja o. Come to lagos and see what's it's like trying to survive from day to day, only then will i listen to you when you talk about how good the govt's policies are. QED!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2006, 06:05 AM
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My dear Benin, like i've said before. This is not about intellectual discussions and postulations, it's about what's happening in reality. The reality is that things are terrible in Naija right now and the govt of the day is not doing anything fantastic about it. It's only the person who wears the shoes that knows where it pinches. Come and stay here for one year, infact make it six months only then will i listen to all your arguements cos then i'd know you're speaking from experience.
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bluestocking
My dear Benin, like i've said before. This is not about intellectual discussions and postulations, it's about what's happening in reality. The reality is that things are terrible in Naija right now and the govt of the day is not doing anything fantastic about it. It's only the person who wears the shoes that knows where it pinches. Come and stay here for one year, infact make it six months only then will i listen to all your arguements cos then i'd know you're speaking from experience.
I would definitely take you up on your offer if I could, but growing work expectations and loads, and a young family, to boot, to look after... makes such a move nearly impossible at this time. By the time I'll get around to doing something like that Naija will probably be a totally different place. But just for reference; the jest of my words were this: If You have no future what good is the present.

If you have no light at the end of the tunnel, why worry about continuing on deeper into darkness. Reform, IMO, has much more to do with reshaping the future than reshaping the present, and as the present moves into the future... things will be seen to be continuously getting better. Look, most of the developments and projects in which the government has put in place and are working on are infantile, they just began operations like a year or two ago, after years of OBJ and other like minded folks bulldozing through a stinking heep of rubbish, so called political bottlenecks and outright Nemesis, seeking democratic destruction.

OBJ's entire first term in office and even some of the first year or more of the current term.. was spent clearing out and straitening out this heap of junk left behind after decades of total political degradation in the nation's system. The fact of that it took 4-5 years and change to clean up that mess to at least a state of being in which simple policies the likes of rebuilding neglected and dilapidated military barracks, or increasing civil service folks allowances a bit... could get through the system without folks bottlenecking them to a near standstill... is a testament to just how low in the dumps the caliber of leadership and law and order in the nation had sunk.

4 Years at the least went strait down the drain in a fight to just tightly up the political mechanism of the nation. That leaves only 4 years or less of REAL action by the government to actually get cracking on doing the things needed to better the lives of those they represent. (((4 YEARS!!!))) In this time, the EFCC was established, credible investors and operators for the steel mills were sought out, along with the refineries.

A satellite was launched investment in agriculture was increased, sea port operations were strengthened, banking system was reformed, foreign investment skyrocketed, and the communications industry grew rapidly. More kids were entered into school than ever before via the UBE program, and mines, closed for many years, yet which can employ thousands of Nigerian laborers while provided new industries in the nation with much needed resources... have been revamped, while others are following suit and some new ones are on the way to being established. Hundreds or Thousands of fresh water systems have been built all over rural Naija, and thousands more will be on the way very soon thanks to Asian, European and American investment in this extremely important project.

Investment in the fight against AIDS and other illnesses threatening the nation has been invested in by the nations government by a level in which dorffs all other nations on the continent, with the exception of maybe South Africa; yet the nation is far from being the greatest infected by many of these illnesses, especially AIDS!! Yet one in which it is the greatest infected, especially when it comes to the north of the nation, Hepatitis, has been jumped on with superb success. Having seen this determination, other nations like the US have shown interest in helping the government strengthen their fight against illness in the nation.

All or most of this, and much more, has taken place in just the past ((3 years)). Yet, with a rapidly growing population of over ((150Mill)) people, most of which is under the age of ((14)). A near totally dilapidated infrastructure from years of mismanagement, a major international PR problem, and a heap of folks still looking to stall the nation's growth... how can you really expect the surroundings of the nation to look all that much different in just ((3)) years of real work?? Patience is a virtue.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:00 PM
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Benin
Did I leave you speechless Lil Ms. Blue?
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. As far as i'm concerned you are just talking rhetorics and govt propaganda.

BTW do you mind not calling me little
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Old 01-27-2006, 06:59 PM
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I guess we'll just agree to disagree. As far as i'm concerned you are just talking rhetorics and govt propaganda.

BTW do you mind not calling me little
You got it, Shorty.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:47 AM
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You got it, Shorty.
and shorty is so much better right?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2006, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestocking
and shorty is so much better right?
Have you ever been to the US? If not; have you ever considered coming? If so, word of advice: Expect to get hit on by alot of AfAm guys.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benin
Have you ever been to the US? If not; have you ever considered coming? If so, word of advice: Expect to get hit on by alot of AfAm guys.

So are you hitting on me then?
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