Come Back, Colonialism, All is Forgiven - Page 2 - Nigerian Movies & Nollywood on Naijarules.com

takestyle · #16 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:16 AM

actually, i did get to the issue the man was supposedly addressing.

if people "yearn for a standard of living that existed before independence," as you say, they would need to ask themselves why that standard of living existed then and why it doesn't exist right now.

longing for the days of colonialism is just plain ignorant, and frankly, if people knew more about the actual colonial situation i doubt they would be so quick to romanticize it.

it's called being an adult. as a grown person, you have to work hard and struggle to pay your bills... sure, you can "yearn" for the carefree days of youth when you lived in your parents' house and they took care of all your needs, but you'd be kind of stupid to realistically contemplate going back to that.

grow up.

Obariba · #17 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

Come Back, Colonialism, All is Forgiven
By Alex Perry

Le Blanc and I are into our 500th kilometer on the river when he turns my view of modern African history on its head. "We should just give it all back to the whites," the riverboat captain says. "Even if you go 1,000 kilometers down this river, you won't see a single sign of development. When the whites left, we didn't just stay where we were. We went backwards."

Le Blanc earns his keep sailing the tributaries of the Congo River. He's 40 years old, and his real name is Malu-Ebonga Charles — he got his nickname, and his green eyes and dark honey skin, from a German grandfather who married a Congolese woman in what was then the Belgian Congo. If his unconventional genealogy gave him a unique view of the Congo's colonial past, it is his job on the river, piloting three dugouts lashed together with twine and mounted with outboards, that has informed his opinion of the Democratic Republic of Congo's present. "The river is the artery of Congo's economy," he says. "When the Belgians and the Portuguese were here, there were farms and plantations — cashews, peanuts, rubber, palm oil. There was industry and factories employing 3,000 people, 5,000 people. But since independence, no Congolese has succeeded. The plantations are abandoned." Using a French expression literally translated as "on the ground," he adds: "Everything is par terre."
It's true that our journey through 643 kilometers of rainforest to where the Maringa River joins the Congo at Mbandaka, has been an exploration of decline. An abandoned tug boat here; there, a beached paddle steamer stripped of its metal sides to a rusted skeleton; several abandoned palm oil factories, their roofs caved in, their walls disappearing into the engulfing forest, their giant storage tanks empty and rusted out. The palms now grow wild and untended on the riverbanks and in the villages we pass, the people dress in rags, hawk smoked black fish and bushmeat, and besiege us with requests for salt or soap. There are no schools here, no clinics, no electricity, no roads. It can take a year for basic necessities ordered from the capital, Kinshasa, nearly 2,000 kilometers downstream, to make it here — if they make it at all. At one point we pass a cargo barge that has taken three months to travel the same distance we will cover in two days. We stop in the hope of buying some gasoline, but all we get from the vessel are rats.

Even amid the morbid decay, it comes as a shock to hear Le Blanc mourn colonialism. The venal, racist scramble by Europeans to possess Africa and exploit its resources found its fullest expression in the Congo. In the late 19th century, Belgium's King Leopold made a personal fiefdom of the central African territory as large as all of Western Europe. From it, he extracted a fortune in ivory, rubber, coffee, cocoa, palm oil and minerals such as gold and diamonds. Unruly laborers working in conditions of de facto slavery had their hands chopped off; the cruelty of Belgian rule was premised on the idea that Congo and its peoples were a resource to be exploited as efficiently as possible. Leopold's absentee brutality set the tone for those that followed him in ruling the Congo — successive Belgian governments and even the independent government of Mobutu Sese Seko, who ruled from 1965 to 1997 and who, in a crowded field, still sets the standard for repression and corruption among African despots.

Le Blanc isn't much concerned with that history; he lives in the present, in a country where education is a luxury and death is everywhere. Around 45,000 people die each month in the DRC as a result of the social collapse brought on by civil war, according to a study released in January by the International Rescue Committee. It estimated the total loss of life between 1998 and April 2007 at 5.4 million. For many Congolese like Le Blanc, the difficulties of today blot out the cruelties of the past. "On this river, all that you see — the buildings, the boats — only whites did that. After the whites left, the Congolese did not work. We did not know how to. For the past 50 years, we've just declined." He pauses. "They took this country by force," he says, with more than a touch of admiration. "If they came back, this time we'd give them the country for free."

Source: Time

Lets talk about the highlighted and stop calling the man names !!!!!

takestyle · #18 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:21 AM

like i said: ask yourself why

what else are we supposed to talk about when people like you seem completely unable to think in an analytical fashion?

so what do you want to talk about? just to complain and beg the white man to come and save you again?

Obariba · #19 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

actually, i did get to the issue the man was supposedly addressing.

if people "yearn for a standard of living that existed before independence," as you say, they would need to ask themselves why that standard of living existed then and why it doesn't exist right now.

longing for the days of colonialism is just plain ignorant, and frankly, if people knew more about the actual colonial situation i doubt they would be so quick to romanticize it.

it's called being an adult. as a grown person, you have to work hard and struggle to pay your bills... sure, you can "yearn" for the carefree days of youth when you lived in your parents' house and they took care of all your needs, but you'd be kind of stupid to realistically contemplate going back to that.

grow up.

Tell me what u know about the actual colonial situation that is worse than the lack of the three basic things of life ???

What bills should we pay ??
Where are the services ??????

Are u referring to the Nepa bill ????
or maybe the hospital bill ???
Where will the money to pay the bills come from ???
The abundant jobs and opportunities ???

Are u suggesting that the poverty in Africa is caused cos the adults are refusing to leave the nest to thrive on their own ???

No Ill tell u what it is ....its we dont have the ability to empower ourselves ...we resolve our problems by calling each other assholes and all sorts of names ....thats what makes our Naija movies exciting ....we love to hear the verbal abuse ...we are not a culture that builds people up or empower each other ...we struggle with empathy ...we prefer sympathy .....we sweat the small stuff ...we would rather tolerate a governor or leader who wipes out the national treasury than accomodate a person ...who is socially or ecomomically different from us .......we are good at pointing fingers .....

I too could have ignored your comment and focused on the points the man raised and put out positive suggestions ....but no I chose to invest my time in accusing you ......that is the problem we face as a people ....crabs in a basket ...a term I heard from Sidney .......we need to take that quick second to stand in people's shoes and imagine how they feel .......look at what the Undp is doing in Nigeria ...they have formed villages as a way to change poverty on the grass root level ....lets look for nations that have thrived after colonialism ....what have they done differently ...what worked for them ...what part can each of us play in making that difference .......

what are u doing ...share your ideas ....thats the way forward !!

Obariba · #20 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

like i said: ask yourself why

what else are we supposed to talk about when people like you seem completely unable to think in an analytical fashion?

so what do you want to talk about? just to complain and beg the white man to come and save you again?

U can be analytical without calling the man an asshole ....u say he is complaining ....wouldnt u complain if u lived under the same conditions ???

He has made a suggestion ....okay it is clear u despise his statement ....but I feel u ....are criticising him ....and yet u ....got on an aircraft ....and flew for several hours to live with the same white man in WHITE MAN LAND....what makes u better than him ????

The difference is he wantS them back on his land ....while u prefer to follow the white man to his land to reside inspite of the difference in climate ... WHAT'S ANALYTICAL ABOUT THAT ?????

You got nothing on him ...u are the sell out !!

takestyle · #21 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 12:05 PM

i'm sorry... this is going way too far afield of the point into some over-emotional hysterics.

Obariba · #22 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

i'm sorry... this is going way too far afield of the point into some over-emotional hysterics.

Thats the problem right there bro ...u are emotionally detached from that man's predicament ....calling him an asshole ...was way too easy than personalising the plight of him and others .....you call it hysterics because ....u have become uncomfortable with the facts I have called u out on ...... tell me now ......who is the real coward with low self esteem !!!!

we can play around with words and show off our semantic skills but cannot face the facts ...or compare and contrast !!
Hysterics...
analytical thinking ....hee hee

Dsampler · #23 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

actually, i did get to the issue the man was supposedly addressing....
...longing for the days of colonialism is just plain ignorant, and frankly, if people knew more about the actual colonial situation i doubt they would be so quick to romanticize it...

Your view on this discussion is amazingly ignorant...

takestyle · #24 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsampler

Your view on this discussion is amazingly ignorant...

oh is that so?

please, feel free to elaborate!

Dsampler · #25 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

oh is that so?

please, feel free to elaborate!

Sure.

Simply put. Compare your peeps' worst nightmare during the colonial days to your peeps' worst nightmare today.

Get it yet?

Bottom line: Your peeps are not well disciplined enough (collectively) to govern themselves. Truth hurts? Don't feel too bad, we're all feeling it.

takestyle · #26 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsampler

Sure.

Simply put. Compare your peeps' worst nightmare during the colonial days to your peeps' worst nightmare today.

Get it yet?

Bottom line: Your peeps are not well disciplined enough (collectively) to govern themselves. Truth hurts? Don't feel too bad, we're all feeling it.

right.

and when exactly do you estimate that my peeps will become "disciplined" enough?

how many years of colonialism do you suppose would finally instill this level of "discipline"? or is it an indefinite thing, that we should be colonized forever because, say, we're pretty much inherently inferior and just lack the latent ability to govern ourselves?

and by the way, i don't buy into that "collectively" nonsense. i believe that individuals effect change... not groups.

that's one tenet upon which your beloved white man built his society, and a huge part of the reason that his society works and ours does not.

that "collectivist" mindset is an impediment to progress.

the answer is not to beg the white man to come and govern you again and be your father. the answer is in looking at the white man's culture, examining it to see the elements that have caused his society to thrive, and integrating them into our own culture.

but let anybody critique traditional Nigerian culture and everybody will say "no-oooooo! this is our culture! this is the way our people have done things for 100s of years! we can't change it! we must keep everything the same!"

and then you wonder why your yard is messed up and the white man's is so pretty.

the problem is that a lot of Africans are really resistant to the idea of using their brains. they'd rather appeal to traditional culture, or pray to some imaginary Jesus or pray to their God on earth, the white man, to save them.

it makes me sick.

and then you have the nerve to call me ignorant because i refuse to buy into your self-defeating attitudes.

*shakes head*

Obariba · #27 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

right.

and when exactly do you estimate that my peeps will become "disciplined" enough?

how many years of colonialism do you suppose would finally instill this level of "discipline"? or is it an indefinite thing, that we should be colonized forever because, say, we're pretty much inherently inferior and just lack the latent ability to govern ourselves?

and by the way, i don't buy into that "collectively" nonsense. i believe that individuals effect change... not groups.

that's one tenet upon which your beloved white man built his society, and a huge part of the reason that his society works and ours does not.

that "collectivist" mindset is an impediment to progress.

the answer is not to beg the white man to come and govern you again and be your father. the answer is in looking at the white man's culture, examining it to see the elements that have caused his society to thrive, and integrating them into our own culture.

but let anybody critique traditional Nigerian culture and everybody will say "no-oooooo! this is our culture! this is the way our people have done things for 100s of years! we can't change it! we must keep everything the same!"

and then you wonder why your yard is messed up and the white man's is so pretty.

the problem is that a lot of Africans are really resistant to the idea of using their brains. they'd rather appeal to traditional culture, or pray to some imaginary Jesus or pray to their God on earth, the white man, to save them.

it makes me sick.

and then you have the nerve to call me ignorant because i refuse to buy into your self-defeating attitudes.

*shakes head*

Now ure speaking about the issue ...
My relative told me that she went to vote in Nigeria and when she got there the police drove her away ...while they stuffed the ballots with fake votes ...

Now that same police man has collected his bribe for the day ....but guess what he has bought yam and plantain maybe for a month and all that is left is in a toilet bowl somewhere ....tomorrow he will complain ...times are hard ....forgetting that he messed up the opportunity for a decent person to be voted as governor.

Individual responsibility is essential ...we need people to go on the radio stations and ...have friendly debates...also start multiple Youtube clips talking about these things ...there needs to be social consciousness and accountability ....
The musicians too can play a very important role by putting out music to shame people and leaders into doing the right thing ....remember Fela ???

I respect Saharareporters becuase they started reporting news and exposing corruption .

What is so sad is black African countries all have the same issues ...this is why the problem is almost looking genetic ....South Africa just stopped Apartheid the other day ....and it seems its the only country that has infrastructure that can compare to first world countries ....what is the common denominator ???? Oyibo man !!!!

So its almost like the "Morbid Decay" is not about to change anytime soon !!

I only wished first world countries would give visas to all Africans ...then lets see who will stay behind ....its almost like the stamp on your passport is what is separatiing the rich from the poor ...I often wonder what would happen if everyone in Naija could cross over ... hmmmm !!!

takestyle · #28 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 01:56 PM

culture is not genetic, Obariba... neither is development.

people forget that Europe remained in savagery even at a time when kingdoms in Asia, Africa and South America were relatively advanced.

what allowed Europe to ascend to the level that it is at now?

cultural change and adaptation.

the fact that the Europeans were extremely open-minded and were willing to look all over the world for good ideas... wherever they saw good ideas, they imitated them.

this thing we call "Western culture" is really a collection of the best ideas from around the world. all this technology and science that we associate with Europe and America, do you think they were the ones who discovered it? hell no! they copied it from the Arabs and the Chinese and even the Maya, who originated the concept of zero in mathematics!

what makes the white man successful is the fact that he is willing to adapt himself to any successful cultural idea and he is willing to abandon any cultural idea that will not bring success.

we don't do that in Africa, though: everybody is so emotionally attached to "tradition."

if you tell someone "hey, let's do things in this different way... that will make us more successful," they'll tell you "no.... that is against our tradition. our forefathers did things in this way, so we must continue doing the same thing."

and then they'll wonder why they haven't progressed any more than their forefathers!

religion is another problem, but i won't even get into that.

i just wish my people were not so damn weak-minded. it's just downright depressing to me to see how many Africans have just given up and decided that maybe we are genetically inferior to the white man.

i swear, that's the reason i am afraid to have children... to have them born into a world where their own people will very happily tell them that they are inferior to another race... it just hurts my soul to even think about it.

Obariba · #29 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takestyle

culture is not genetic, Obariba... neither is development.

people forget that Europe remained in savagery even at a time when kingdoms in Asia, Africa and South America were relatively advanced.

what allowed Europe to ascend to the level that it is at now?

cultural change and adaptation.

the fact that the Europeans were extremely open-minded and were willing to look all over the world for good ideas... wherever they saw good ideas, they imitated them.

this thing we call "Western culture" is really a collection of the best ideas from around the world. all this technology and science that we associate with Europe and America, do you think they were the ones who discovered it? hell no! they copied it from the Arabs and the Chinese and even the Maya, who originated the concept of zero in mathematics!

what makes the white man successful is the fact that he is willing to adapt himself to any successful cultural idea and he is willing to abandon any cultural idea that will not bring success.

we don't do that in Africa, though: everybody is so emotionally attached to "tradition."

if you tell someone "hey, let's do things in this different way... that will make us more successful," they'll tell you "no.... that is against our tradition. our forefathers did things in this way, so we must continue doing the same thing."

and then they'll wonder why they haven't progressed any more than their forefathers!

religion is another problem, but i won't even get into that.

i just wish my people were not so damn weak-minded. it's just downright depressing to me to see how many Africans have just given up and decided that maybe we are genetically inferior to the white man.

i swear, that's the reason i am afraid to have children... to have them born into a world where their own people will very happily tell them that they are inferior to another race... it just hurts my soul to even think about it.

I hear u ...check out the Ibinabo has a baby for Fred thread and see the stuff our so called "Born again Christian sisters" wrote there ... it was wierd ...people are indeed stuck in their ways and believe even when everything falls apart around them in their society ....there is a false sense of superiority over other people of the world.

TS ...ure post shed a lot of light on the issue ...but if u dont talk about it how will people see things the way u do ...we have to learn to exchange ideas and knowledge ....people will not change unless there is exchange of ideas.

See what Nas did with his music -

I remember when Nas came out with that his song .........

I know I can
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

Verse 1:

Be be
Boys and girls listen up
You can be anything in the world
In God we trust
An architect, doctor, maybe an actress
But nothing comes easy it takes much practice
Like, I met a woman who's becomin a star
She was very beautiful
Leavin people in awe
Singin songs Leena Hawn
But the younger version
Hung with the wrong person
Got her strung on the
Sniffin up drugs all in the nose
Could have died so young
Now looks ugly and old
No fun cuz now when she reaches for hugs
People hold their ground
Cuz she smells of corrosion and death
Watch the company you keep
And the crowd you bring
Cuz they came to do drugs and you came to sing
So if you gonna be the best
I'ma tell you how
Put your hands in the air and take a bow

Chorus:

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

Verse 2:

Be be
Boys and girls listen again
This is for grown-lookin girls
Who only 10
The ones who watch videos and do what they see
As cute as can be
Up in the club with fake ID's
Careful
Fore you meet a man with HIV
You can host a T.V. like Oprah Winfrey
Whatever you decide
Be careful some men be rapists
So act your age
Don't pretend to be older than you are
Give yourself time to grow
You thinkin he can give you wealth
But so young boys you can use a lotta help you know
You thinkin life's all about smokin * and ice
You don't wanna be my age and can't read and write
Beggin different women for a place to sleep at night
Smart boys turn em in and do whatever they wish
If you believe you can achieve
Then say it like this

Chorus:

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

Verse 3:

Be be Fore we came to this country
We were kings and queens
Never porch monkeys
There was empires and
Africa called Kush
Timbuktu where every race came to get books
To learn from black teachers
Who taught Greeks and Romans
Asian, Arabs and gave them gold
When gold was converted to money it all changed
Money then became empowerment for Europeans
The Persian military invaded
They heard about the gold, the teachings, and everything sacred
Africa was almost robbed naked
Slavery was money
So they began makin slave ships
Egypt was the place that Alexander the Great went
He was shocked at the moutains with black faces
Shot up their nose to impose what basically
Still goes on today you see
If the truth is told the youth can grow
Can learn to survive until they gain control
Nobody says you hafta be gangstas
Read more learn more change the globe
Ghetto children do your thing
Hold your head up little man
Your a king
Young princess when you
Get your wedding ring
Your man is sayin "She's my queeeen" Chorus:

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

I know I can
I know I can
Be what I wanna be
Be what I wanna be
If I work hard at it
I'll be where I wanna be
I'll be where I wanna be

Save the music ya'll
Save the music ya'll
Save the music ya'll
Save the music ya'll
Save the music

takestyle · #30 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 04:11 PM

that's all i do, Ob... i talk. i try to change people's minds... or at least stimulate them to look at things from a different point of view.

yes, sometimes i do employ shock tactics and rude language in order to get people's attention, but it's really about the ideas that are behind the shock.

we can only hope to change people's minds... one by one. that's our only hope. and it will not happen overnight, but we can't give up! we need to keep the movement moving!