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06-30-2008, 06:33 PM
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The Trial of Multioption!
As a sequel to my last article debunking Multioption's claims about tithing, "Believers are not subject to the Tithe," I hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. Enjoy the conversation:
Jesus: Multioption, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they "would go to hell." How do you plead?
Multioption: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.
Jesus: Is it not true, Multioption, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?
Multioption: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.
Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until
Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?
Multioption: Yes, I suppose you are right.
Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?
Multioption: No.
Jesus: Multioption, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?
Multioption: Well, just once.
Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?
Multioption: No it does not.
Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?
Multioption: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?
Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?
Multioption: Yes that’s what the Bible says.
Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?
Multioption: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.
Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?
Multioption: I guess not
Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the "largest denominations" and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?
Multioption: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.
Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?
Multioption: I believe it says plunder?
Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?
Multioption: Yes, I suppose
Jesus: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things.
It does not say it was all money correct?
Multioption: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.
Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct,
Multioption?
Multioption: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.
Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?
Multioption: That is right.
Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Multioption. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?
Multioption: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.
Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?
Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.
Multioption: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.
Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me,
Multioption.
Multioption: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘
Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Multioption?
Multioption: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.
Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Multioption. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?
Multioption: That is not what I meant.
Jesus: What did you mean then?
Multioption: That we should give God a tenth also.
Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or Levites to give it to at that time.
Multioption: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.
Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.
Multioption: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.
Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.
Multioption: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.
Jesus: Answer me this, Multioption, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?
Multioption: No I didn’t know that.
Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.
Multioption: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.
Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the Levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?
Multioption: I don’t know
Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.
Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?
Multioption: I do not know of any.
Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?
Multioption: Man must have.
Jesus: So far all you have done, Multioption, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?
Multioption: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.
Jesus: Ok let me hear it.
Multioption: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy,
and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.
Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?
Multioption: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.
Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?
Multioption: No sir; God forbid!.
Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“.
Are we under the law, Multioption?
Multioption: No.
Jesus: Why not?
Multioption: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.
Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?
Multioption: When You were crucified.
Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?
Multioption: That is correct sir.
Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?
Multioption: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.
Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?
Multioption: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.
Jesus: Was money mentioned there?
Multioption: No sir; it was not.
Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?
Multioption: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for the yearly meetings, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.
Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourselves. They are not My agenda.
Jesus: Now to the more grievous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?
Multioption: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace.
Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?
Multioption: Yes, sir.
Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.
Multioption: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.
Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?
Multioption: That was not what I intended, sir.
Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?
Multioption: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.
Multioption: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. In fact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.
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06-30-2008, 06:36 PM
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What else can I say to defend my stand on tithing?
Somebody help, pls!
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Watch and pray lest you enter into temptation - Matthew 26:41
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07-01-2008, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multioption
What else can I say to defend my stand on tithing?
Somebody help, pls!
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Thanks Multi for the lenghty diatribe aimed at debunking the tithe mystery in Christianity.I am NOT ruffled one bit by it bcos,
-I am not a farmer like all the people you highlighted on were and cannot bring food to my place of worship instead of a means to buy food
-Money is valid as replacement of food from the bible instances you gave up there bcos,food is from a harvest of planting just like money in this context is a harvest of services rendered.
I can go on with more reasons why your line of arguement would not budge me but lets keep it as it is for now.Note that the abuse of tithing by pastors doesn't mean that tithing in itself is wrong.Levites also towed same line where, the sons of Eli quickly comes to mind.
Tithing works as a heavenly principle but has no advantage on salvation
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07-01-2008, 07:21 AM
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I believe tithing/giving is biblically in order. though it is not a criteria for making heaven or hell.
Some churches and ministry do actually abuse the practice of tithe, but that is not enough to eradicate the practice all together.
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The heavens themselves blaze forth the death of princes." -William Shakespeare
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07-01-2008, 09:37 AM
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Can you also tithe with time, if you don't have money, (i mean, if giving that 10% could mean difference of not making your light bill, or electric) can you tithe by perhaps working with the youth group at church or finding something you can do at church? or in the community?
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07-01-2008, 01:16 PM
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@Papino, TheForce and other Christians:
I, like many other Christians, used to subscribe to the legal code that demands 10% of my income but later discovered that I am not bound by the law. In the spirit of sincerity (an attribute that is conspicuously lacking in the life of many Believers in Christ Jesus) I searched the Bible to understand the mind of God on the subject of GIVING and my discovery was mind blowing. The result was a step in the right direction. I started practising the discovery and, lo and behold, I do not only enjoy God's grace in my finances, I also enjoy His grace in soul winning and other aspect of spiritual living.
Here is what I discovered in a nutshell: "unto Him whom much is given, much is required!" That principle is by far deeper and more beneficial to God's kingdom than tithing, hence the believers of old were provoked by love that they sold their possessions and laid the proceeds at the Apostles feet (Acts 4:32-34 - A MUST READ). The Spirit that established the church is lost in the life of many believers, and people wonder why the world is turned upside down! The loss of that SPIRIT is responsible for corruption and decadence in the church. God cannot confide in many Christians concerning issues pertaining to other brethren in the local assembly (let alone in the locality) because the Spirit of Christ is missing in the life of many. A Christian life bound by the old testament law cannot but think of only him/her self, and as such cannot pursue a "church life" that makes God proud.
Consider this, if my mind is set on the law of ten percent after which I feel my obligation to God is fulfilled, where do I stand in God's program for other Christians? There are loads of Christians whose testimonies on giving start and end with ten percent. It is almost impossible for God to lead Christians to help one another because everyone is unwittingly self absorbed.
In modern churches, the spirit of "s'adura n s'amin" is prevalent so much so that there seems to be no one unto whom God can reveal the pains and anguish of fellow brethren because everyone has gone his/her own way. - Philippians 2:21.
There is a world of difference between "PAYING of Tithes" and leading "a sacrificial life," which is God's desire for believers in Christ Jesus.
In conclusion: God's expectations from believers in Christ Jesus is not ten percent of their income. It's their very life, their heart and POSSESSIONS. And when Christians begin to walk in the light of this truth, many shall see how they had failed God in time past by limiting their walk with the Lord through the LAW.
If we insist that our financial responsibility to the Church/God is ten percent of our income as stated in the old Covenant, what about the keeping of Sabbath, Circumcision, and other Ceremonial Laws? Are we to abandon those and cling tenaciously to the "law" that we have "tested and proved" to be beneficial to us?
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07-01-2008, 01:34 PM
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An addendum:
The doctrine postulated in a very popular "church" in Nigeria is that if a believer does not pay his/her tithes, s/he is going to hell. I have heard this teaching severally and cannot but wonder why such doctrine is espoused.
Numerical strength does not equate spiritual growth; and "external miracles" (praise God for His blessings) are by no means equal to internal miracles that lead to a holy living. What good report is in having a congregation of people drawn from various churches and "religions" after which the non-believers return to their sins and other gods?
"...Christ is cleansing the church by the washing of water in the word...."
Come, Lord Jesus!!
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07-01-2008, 01:36 PM
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Great this came up because i've been thinking about it lately. Not that I don't know what the truth is but wondering if a preacher will ever preach it accurately.
In a nutshell and simplistically, tithing was the 10% to be used for a set apart tribe in Israel whose main responsibility was the priesthood - the levites. Because they were not to do anything but that, God had to make provision for their upkeep. (Ofcourse also the maintenance of the temple and other needs as set aside by the levitical law.)
In the new testament and the gentile churches, nowhere did Paul ever instruct on tithing. He did instruct/encourage/imply that people give for the pastor's upkeep, those in need etc.
The fact is that tithing as in 10 percent is not a requirement in the churches -and actually a lot of preachers should know this. I think a lot of times it is preached because preachers are afraid people will not give enough to support what is needed or in some cases because they are ignorant.
A true christian will have a heart of generousity or let me put it this way, the Holy Spirit will teach and lead you to generousity. You will give as you see needs and we know there is the light bill to pay, rent for the church, the pastor's upkeep, money needed for the poor etc. But ten percent is not - as stated in the levitical law, part of what a christian is necessarily, as a christian tenet, supposed to give to increase the purses of the church.
I think anyone that argues this really hasn't studied the new testament on this or is afraid to go against a teaching they have heard about forever.
But more importantly, if you know as a christian that letting go of this teaching will affect how you give, then I think you should continue. We all know the discipline we need to do the right thing.
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07-01-2008, 01:50 PM
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"The Trial of Multioption" is a modification of a satire written by Yomi Adegboye, so credits, if any, should go to him. However, I agree wholeheartedly with most (not all) of the things that Yomi writes on his website, Yomi Says.
He is a lone voice crying in the wilderness and I'm very sure that many shall consider him heretic and may even want to stone him. Whoever is upset by his writings should check his/her faith. "The anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God"
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07-01-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multioption
@Papino, TheForce and other Christians:
I, like many other Christians, used to subscribe to the legal code that demands 10% of my income but later discovered that I am not bound by the law. In the spirit of sincerity (an attribute that is conspicuously lacking in the life of many Believers in Christ Jesus) I searched the Bible to understand the mind of God on the subject of GIVING and my discovery was mind blowing. The result was a step in the right direction. I started practising the discovery and, lo and behold, I do not only enjoy God's grace in my finances, I also enjoy His grace in soul winning and other aspect of spiritual living.
Here is what I discovered in a nutshell: "unto Him whom much is given, much is required!" That principle is by far deeper and more beneficial to God's kingdom than tithing, hence the believers of old were provoked by love that they sold their possessions and laid the proceeds at the Apostles feet (Acts 4:32-34 - A MUST READ). The Spirit that established the church is lost in the life of many believers, and people wonder why the world is turned upside down! The loss of that SPIRIT is responsible for corruption and decadence in the church. God cannot confide in many Christians concerning issues pertaining to other brethren in the local assembly (let alone in the locality) because the Spirit of Christ is missing in the life of many. A Christian life bound by the old testament law cannot but think of only him/her self, and as such cannot pursue a "church life" that makes God proud.
Consider this, if my mind is set on the law of ten percent after which I feel my obligation to God is fulfilled, where do I stand in God's program for other Christians? There are loads of Christians whose testimonies on giving start and end with ten percent. It is almost impossible for God to lead Christians to help one another because everyone is unwittingly self absorbed.
In modern churches, the spirit of "s'adura n s'amin" is prevalent so much so that there seems to be no one unto whom God can reveal the pains and anguish of fellow brethren because everyone has gone his/her own way. - Philippians 2:21.
There is a world of difference between "PAYING of Tithes" and leading "a sacrificial life," which is God's desire for believers in Christ Jesus.
In conclusion: God's expectations from believers in Christ Jesus is not ten percent of their income. It's their very life, their heart and POSSESSIONS. And when Christians begin to walk in the light of this truth, many shall see how they had failed God in time past by limiting their walk with the Lord through the LAW.
If we insist that our financial responsibility to the Church/God is ten percent of our income as stated in the old Covenant, what about the keeping of Sabbath, Circumcision, and other Ceremonial Laws? Are we to abandon those and cling tenaciously to the "law" that we have "tested and proved" to be beneficial to us?
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I see what you mean and I know you are writing from a sincere heart. Though the issue of tithing had been greatly abused by the church, i still don't see it as wrong. It is wrong when we see it as a law, which it never was. But rather a principle that governs giving.
It is not a compulsory thing to the extent of making a doctrine out of it. I used to tell people that giving and tithing is not a not a Christian law, rather it is a natural principle of (you give to get) it works on every individual regardless of their faith/religion.
Whether you tithe, give offerings of cash or kind or you render service to humanity, the bible says (Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.) (Gal 6:7 KJV)
The key word there is whatsoever. You sow cash you reap cash, .........and we wonder why the rich gets richer.
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07-01-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForce
I see what you mean and I know you are writing from a sincere heart. Though the issue of tithing had been greatly abused by the church, i still don't see it as wrong. It is wrong when we see it as a law, which it never was. But rather a principle that governs giving.
It is not a compulsory thing to the extent of making a doctrine out of it. I used to tell people that giving and tithing is not a not a Christian law, rather it is a natural principle of (you give to get) it works on every individual regardless of their faith/religion.
Whether you tithe, give offerings of cash or kind or you render service to humanity, the bible says (Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.) (Gal 6:7 KJV)
The key word there is whatsoever. You sow cash you reap cash, .........and we wonder why the rich gets richer.
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Yes but you and I know it is being taught as a law in our churches. It is many times taught as a sign of our love for God, sometimes the seriousness of our salvation etc. I have seen so many christians struggle with the weight and guilt of this.
A generous heart should be taught as a heart that pleases God and needs should be communicated to the believers and then it should be left there. Also the fact is that God does not always reward the giving of cash with cash back. We all know this. It could be in other ways but overall not everyone can handle money well and God knows those that can't. We are promised that our needs will be met.
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07-01-2008, 03:02 PM
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If you dont pay your tithe,u r robbing God and u are cursed...Its tht simple!
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..To the one who spoke and the galaxies leapt into existence....who can't be explained on a chalkboard but can be accessed through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.....whose word never returns to him void but accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent.....the one in whom I am complete.....the great I am...who was,who is and who is to come....
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07-01-2008, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudlyifreke
If you dont pay your tithe,u r robbing God and u are cursed...Its tht simple!
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Don't forget that the scripture used to support this "tithe and curse" thing is Malachi 3:8-10, why is emphasis not laid on the offering part of it? when they are both mentioned in the same verse... is it because offerings are in most cases smaller than tithe? ... I wonder.
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07-01-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudlyifreke
If you dont pay your tithe,u r robbing God and u are cursed...Its tht simple!
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sorry but it is needful for you to back that up with the old and new testament and context in consideration.
what you have just said is what has weighted so many christians. I have seen old women from the village walk bare feet to attend church miles away and many of them have nothing. we know how village is. They put coins (at least in those days) in the offertory and that is all they have. They do give the pastor rice and yam or other livestock when they have. some cook for the pastor.
We now look them in the eye and tell them they are cursed? Because of tithe? I don't believe that and it is not scriptural.
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07-01-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForce
Don't forget that the scripture used to support this "tithe and curse" thing is Malachi 3:8-10, why is emphasis not laid on the offering part of it? when they are both mentioned in the same verse... is it because offerings are in most cases smaller than tithe? ... I wonder.
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could it be because offerings were usually attached to something specific like peace offering, a vow, sin offering etc and so where more occasional but tithes were supposed to feed a whole tribe of people that were dependent on it to live and carry out their responsibilities and as a whole were more regular in application?
Loose example - if you don't pay taxes, you rob your country. How does the government pay it's workers, how does it provide utilities, how do the elderly get medicare?
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