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Multioption · #16 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

So you agree that a god like yahweh and his "son" are being represented by scumbags and perverts.That is a step forward,but the billion dollar question is, "why does he/they allow that to happen"?

YHWH is a GOD with capital G, not "a god." There are several gods in the air, and their boss is Satan "prince of air."

Satan is a god that needs scumbags and perverts to represent him.

vince · #17 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifu

Vince the Bible encourages us to think for ourselves. Paul even said it , that he preffered the brethren that did not just take his word just because he said it but went home and read the scriptures to make sure that it is so. People just use the Bible to cover up their laziness.

So why are religious teachings from the christian clergy of these modern days so diametrically opposed to that?When did the derailing occur,exactly?

vince · #18 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 11:30 AM

Wrong!Yahweh is a god of a certain tribe - as repeated so often in the bible - so that makes him a TRIBAL god,just like sango or ogun,or amadioha,or "amun ra" the Egyptian sun god,which in turn reduces the capital "G" to a little "g".
A capital "G" GOD would not have A CHOSEN TRIBE,but rather all it's entire creations would be THE CHOSEN ONES.
So that pretty much disqualifies yahweh.
I didn't say it,the bible did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

YHWH is a GOD with capital G, not "a god."

There are several gods,alright,and yahweh is just one of them.A jewish tribal god,hence the small "g"(as so often stated in the bible).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

There are several gods in the air, and their boss is Satan "prince of air."

So why are there so many scumbags,liars and perverts in the christian faith,or better said,in the three abrahamic desert dogmas?
Could it be that satan is the god of these three desert dogmas?I just wonder.
Christianity attracts scumbags as readily and strongly as honey attracts bees.Why is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

Satan is a god that needs scumbags and perverts to represent him.

Multioption · #19 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

Yahweh is a god of a certain tribe - as repeated so often in the bible - so that makes him a TRIBAL god,which in turn reduces the cappital "G",to a little g.
A capital G GOD would not have A CHOSEN TRIBE,but all it's entire creation would be THE CHOSEN ONES.

No, YHWH is not a tribal God. He's the Maker of heavens and the earth. The earth is His and the fullness thereof. He did not just wake up and chose a race. In fact, there was no JEWISH race until GOD created them as they (the JEWS) were products of HIS dealings with Jacob. It is the same thing that He is doing now with those who believe in Christ - He's transforming them to the image and likeness of Christ; and when this set of people begin to manifest the attributes of Christ (the gift and the fruit of the Spirit) they are called Christians.

God chose a man named Abraham and dealt with Him, and through Abraham He obtained Isaac. And through Isaac He obtained Esau and Jacob, and through Jacob whose named He changed to Israel, He obtained 12 able bodied men whom HE decided to named the JEWISH race. So He did not choose a race, rather HE made them. He carved them out of ordinary folks like you and me.

After He got the JEWISH race, He introduced His Son through the immaculate conception. His only begotten Son came to the world to accomplish a purpose so that whoever believes in HIM should also be a product of God's workmanship. Now, God is gaining many sons through HIS only begotten SON.

We (Christians) are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus.

The Jewish were God's workmanship created in Jacob.

So as proved above, God is simply converting men - those who yield to Him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

So that pretty much disqualifies yahweh.I didn't say it,the bible did.

"...for God is in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself...." 2 Cor 5:19.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life" - John 3:16.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

So why are there so many scumbags,liars and perverts in the christian faith,or better said,the three abrahamic desert dogmas?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God- Romans 3:23. So, if you know any liar, pervert or scumbag in the Christian faith, you can rest assured that such a one is undergoing rehabilitation, excluding satanic agents whose sole business on earth is to denigrate the Christian faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

Could it be that satan is the god of these three desert dogmas?I just wonder.

Satan is the god of his agents who go about to perpetuate evil in the name of Christ. They are imitators, and as such fake!

vince · #20 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 12:41 PM

So why is he so jealously referred to as the god of israel every couple of pages in the bible?
Ofcourse he is a tribal god,ala zeus et al.
Yhwh is an anthropomorphized god created by the jews in their times of trauma,and that's why he is their god.THEY CREATED HIM IN THEIR OWN IMAGE and stuffed him in a book called "the bible".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

No, YHWH is not a tribal God.

Does all that matter?He is still their tribal god because it is written in the bible that he is the god of israel.No point doing gymnastics about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

He did not just wake up and chose a race. In fact, there was no JEWISH race
until GOD created them as they (the JEWS) were products of HIS dealings with Jacob

Aargh!Gymnastics.Stop twisting the bible's words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

It is the same thing that He is doing now with those who believe in Christ - He's transforming them to the image and likeness of Christ; and when this set of people begin to manifest the attributes of Christ (the gift and the fruit of the Spirit) they are called Christians.
God chose a man named Abraham and dealt with Him, and through Abraham He obtained Isaac. And through Isaac He obtained Esau and Jacob, and through Jacob whose named He changed to Israel, He obtained 12 able bodied men whom HE decided to named the JEWISH race. So He did not choose a race, rather HE made them. He carved them out of ordinary folks like you and me.

Multioption · #21 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 01:14 PM

[quote=vince;625450]So why is he so jealously referred to as the god of israel every couple of pages in the bible?
Ofcourse he is a tribal god,ala zeus et al.

Quote:

Yhwh is an anthropomorphized god created by the jews in their times of trauma,and that's why he is their god.THEY CREATED HIM IN THEIR OWN IMAGE and stuffed him in a book called "the bible".
Does all that matter?He is still their tribal god because it is written in the bible that he is the god of israel.No point doing gymnastics about this.

Aargh!Gymnastics.Stop twisting the bible's words.

You're not interested in knowing the truth, Bro!

vince · #22 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 01:22 PM

You did not prove anything,multi.All you did was do some heavy duty scriptural gymnastics,that's all.One needs a big dose of faith to accept all that twisting and turning.You are entitled to your right to interprete the scriptures any way you see fit,because that is all it is,personal interpretations.
I mean,i could effectively prove that jesus christ is the antichrist,using both the old and the new testament,even the gospels themselves.That is how maleable the scripture is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

So as proved above,

Rehabilitation?Whatever that rehab technique is,it is definitely not working.As a matter of fact,it is making things worse as more and more scumbags/liars/perverts are being produced daily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

So, if you know any liar, pervert or scumbag in the Christian faith, you can rest assured that such a one is undergoing rehabilitation,

Satan is the biggest ally of chritianity,most definitely.All blames are shifted on to this entity at will.Abnegation of one's own responsiblity.Satan plays the convenient scapegoat,i guess.
Man created the christian faith,and man now denigrates it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

excluding satanic agents whose sole business on earth is to denigrate the Christian faith.

Every religious faith needs a bad guy to have any meaning,i guess.Satan stands as the judeo-christian baddie numero uno.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

Satan is the god of his agents who go about to perpetuate evil in the name of Christ. They are imitators, and as such fake!

Let me reiterate that the entity known as "yhwh" or "yahweh" is a man made god(Ancient jewish made to be exact) and that is why he displayed quite graphically in the bible,the worst of human frailties.
Had yahweh been created in our time,he would have been a much more benevolent god.

vince · #23 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 01:27 PM

Truth?You need knowledge to provide the "truth",multi.Not by mere personal scriptural interpretations that are already tainted by lack of knowledge that comes from having "faith",in the first place.
How can you claim to know the truth when you're merely a man of faith?Aren't you a man of religious faith?Ofcourse you are.You are a christian.
Faith by definition, means "you do not know".So how can you provide a "truth"?Interprete the scriptures from now till the cows come home and you still will not know.Why?Because you are being blocked by faith from knowing.
FYI,"knowing" is what separates spirituality from religiousity.
Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multioption

You're not interested in knowing the truth, Bro!

filmdirector · #24 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

Truth?You need knowledge to provide the "truth",multi.Not by mere personal scriptural interpretations that are already tainted by lack of knowledge that comes from having "faith",in the first place.
How can you claim to know the truth when you're merely a man of faith?Aren't you a man of religious faith?Ofcourse you are.You are a christian.
Faith by definition, means "you do not know".So how can you provide a "truth"?Interprete the scriptures from now till the cows come home and you still will not know.Why?Because you are being blocked by faith from knowing.
FYI,"knowing" is what separates spirituality from religiousity.
Cheers!

Faith is the belief and complete trust in God. A christian's knowledge is scriptural..meaning we know about God, his personality and ways through scripture. We see from the Christian's God's POV. That is our knowledge. The knowledge we chose to follow. People come up with this - "It's your interpretation." and yet most things in scripture is clearly seen.

People want God to rise up and squash the perverts? But what are they? The righteous? A heart of bitterness, envy, jealousy, lust, selfish ambition, pride - is that different from these perverts? Or is it because their sin is evident to all?

You chose not to see His (the Chrisitan God's )POV, that is a choice you have made. You chose to classify him as every other god out there. Even though in scripture He has boldly declared himself as God above all others. Everytime you write against the Christian God, you get bolder and bolder with your declarations. You will soon, if you haven't already done so spit in His face.

Your cup runneth over.

Sifu · #25 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

So why are religious teachings from the christian clergy of these modern days so diametrically opposed to that?When did the derailing occur,exactly?

It happens to people who "choose" not to be informed. You are not supposed to listen to just what another man is telling you. It is contrary to the what the word says not to study the scripture. We are admonished to. 11 Timothy says study to show thryself approved. Most people who get hurt choose not to study the word of God on their own.

vince · #26 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 02:33 PM

I digress.Faith is the belief and complete trust in manmade scriptures.It has absolute nada to do with the creator of this reality that we live in end everything in it.
A christian would have belief and trust in a judeo-christian god if he or she is born in a christian world.If this same person was born in an islamic society,he/she would believe in an islamic god.So you can see a human design here,definitely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

Faith is the belief and complete trust in God.

Then that will mean that you know what somebody else wants you to know about what they have convinced you is God,his personalities and ways.
Knowing God is outside any faith and any scripture.It is a personal journey of hard search for spiritual knowledge.It is never delivered to one on one's lap,like religions claim to do.Herein lies the fallacy of faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

A christian's knowledge is scriptural..meaning we know about God, his personality and ways through scripture.

If that is true,then why are there so many different and conflicting interpretations of the scripture among christians?Why is the christian faith so schizoid in nature?

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

People come up with this - "It's your interpretation." and yet most things in scripture is clearly seen.

Most religions declare their god as "above all others" in their religious scriptures.The muslims say that koran declares allah as the numero uno among all gods.So which of them is the capo di tutti capi?You see the fallacy?
I guess you don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

Even though in scripture He has boldly declared himself as God above all others.

I guess the boldness comes from a strong belief that the image carved out by the christians for the creator of this reality we live in,is blasphemous.So i have neither fears nor misgivings about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

Everytime you write against the Christian God, you get bolder and bolder with your declarations.

Chistians have been spitting and trampling on the creator's face since the inception of christianity.
Thou shall not create any graven image of God?Is that not what christians have been doing?Creating caricatures of something as abstract as a creator being.Complete blasphemy.I am not the one doing the spitting here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

You will soon, if you haven't already done so spit in His face.

Yours,too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmdirector

Your cup runneth over.

vince · #27 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 02:38 PM

But they turn to scriptures to be informed,sifu.Unfortunately different people interprete the scriptures in different ways.
That aside,people of faith have been so conditioned that they can't help but rely entirely on somebody else telling them what the bible says.
It is statistically true that most christians have never really read the bible,apart from reading those verses cherrypicked for them by their pastors,or something.And when i say,"read the bible",i mean from cover to cover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifu

It happens to people who "choose" not to be informed. You are not supposed to listen to just what another man is telling you. It is contrary to the what the word says not to study the scripture. We are admonished to. 11 Timothy says study to show thryself approved. Most people who get hurt choose not to study the word of God on their own.

vince · #28 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 02:56 PM

Okay,i think i've had enough of religious debate for this week.I believe that i have ruffled enough feathers and hurt enough feelings for today.

Multi,please make sure you look for a very hot theological theme to tear at next week.

I will carry my wahala come here sometimes next week,come ruffle some religious feathers again.I thank all who sparred with me.

Till next week,then.Tata!

goseiant · #29 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 03:15 PM

The bible says "lack of knowledge my people perish." The bible makes it very clear in Matthew 24 of the signs of the end times but Christians of today feel lazy or reluctant to read the bible so why won't they be deceived? They just want everything instant! Instant food, instant wealth, instant healing, instant everything without going through the proper channel.

There will always be bad nuts that spoils the whole lot in everything, like what many have said so far, christians need to be vigilant and pray, study the word of God to show themselves approved to be able to spot a false prophet when they see one. May God help us all in this our christian journey!

Multioption · #30 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

Okay,i think i've had enough of religious debate for this week.I believe that i have ruffled enough feathers and hurt enough feelings for today.

Multi,please make sure you look for a very hot theological theme to tear at next week.

I will carry my wahala come here sometimes next week,come ruffle some religious feathers again.I thank all who sparred with me.

Till next week,then.Tata!