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Black Magic cinema camera.....almost here...

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Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#3
Finally listened to the link; interesting interview. The BlackMagic camera IMO is going to be revolutionary; the specs/price point ratio is just off the scale. I hope they make a 'version 2' of the camera with a sensor at least APS-C or 'Super 35mm' size that costs no more than $5/6000 with a 60fps at 2.5k and maybe even 120fps at 1080p.
The 'frame rate' argument they have does not hold any water at all because even the tiny $600 Sony NEX-5 does 60fps @ 1080. BlackMagic pls do NOT go down the route of Canon by saying simple 60fps will make a camera cost $25,000... oh by the way did I mention Sony with better frame rates (240fps @ 1080p) in a 'real' camera the FS-700???
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#4
The revolutionary thing about the camera is the medium upon which it records. That is the revolution. No other camera that i know of dumps recorded signal on SSDs. Blackmagic are the first.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#6
The revolutionary thing about the camera is the medium upon which it records. That is the revolution. No other camera that i know of dumps recorded signal on SSDs. Blackmagic are the first.
Not exactly bros. RED records to SSD in 64GB, 128GB and 256GB. MxM have also had their SSD recorder for the Sony EX series forever really. Additionally, with a ton of various other cameras you can add to or even by-pass internal recording and dump files straight to a recorder like Atomos Ninja and Chase and a 'zillion' others that wil accept SSDs (The main reason DSLR shooters want 'full clean' HDMI out). SSD recording is pretty old to be honest.

What I think is revolutionary is the BlackMagic camera is more or less 'open-source', you are not locked into some silly codec the other camera makers get you stuck in. Also this shoots RAW... 2.5K for ONLY 3G's - that definitely makes it as revolutionary as the company that started the revolution in recent times... We really all have RED to thank for everything!
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#7
Okay. But does any RED camera or any Sony camera has an inbuilt SSD recorder in them? Please show me a link to such a camera, VB.
Not exactly bros. RED records to SSD in 64GB, 128GB and 256GB. MxM have also had their SSD recorder for the Sony EX series forever really. Additionally, with a ton of various other cameras you can add to or even by-pass internal recording and dump files straight to a recorder like Atomos Ninja and Chase and a 'zillion' others that wil accept SSDs (The main reason DSLR shooters want 'full clean' HDMI out). SSD recording is pretty old to be honest.

What I think is revolutionary is the BlackMagic camera is more or less 'open-source', you are not locked into some silly codec the other camera makers get you stuck in. Also this shoots RAW... 2.5K for ONLY 3G's - that definitely makes it as revolutionary as the company that started the revolution in recent times... We really all have RED to thank for everything!
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#8
Okay. But does any RED camera or any Sony camera has an inbuilt SSD recorder in them? Please show me a link to such a camera, VB.
Bros no take this as argue because na learn we all dey learn, however, the BlackMagic camera is NOT and is nowhere near being the first camera to have a built-in SSD 'recorder'. Recorder being the key word. You do realise that the REDMAG SSD slots into the camera abi? (RED is just a brain that you build up with other bits to get it working).

I am sure practically every High-Speed camera has built-in SSD and many generic cameras do too. It is not 'revolutionary'. It's exactly the same thing as any toy camcorder recording to common tiny SD memory cards.

Please do have a look at this old video; it puts to rest any issues at exactly 54secs in. Inbuilt SSD recording.

Seriously it's not a biggie, built in or not, recording to SSD is not huge or news or even new. It is a good thing though.

EPIC 1.jpg Red2.jpg

EDIT: Just incase the pics are not clear enough, what is built into the side of the RED 'brain' is this - Red SSD side module
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#9
VB, all the camera you showed me, none has inbuilt SSD recorder. They are all camera heads with docking possibility, meaning that one can dock an SSD recorder on them and go about shooting. That is not what i am talking about here. Blackmagic Design also have such a dockable recorder that can be attached to any camera head in their line up of procucts. I am talking about an SSD camcorder single unit. That is what the Blackmagic camera is. I am waiting for the next manufacturer to come out with something like that.
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#10
I am talking something like this, ssd.jpg

Open up a camcorder and slot in an SSD like you would pop in a CF card or a SD card. RED is no such camera, bro.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#12
VB, all the camera you showed me, none has inbuilt SSD recorder. They are all camera heads with docking possibility, meaning that one can dock an SSD recorder on them and go about shooting. That is not what i am talking about here. Blackmagic Design also have such a dockable recorder that can be attached to any camera head in their line up of procucts. I am talking about an SSD camcorder single unit. That is what the Blackmagic camera is. I am waiting for the next manufacturer to come out with something like that.
Vince, let's just agree to differ on this. Unfortunately the Fastec TS3Cine camera (images with specs here) must be a lie and the initially posted video wasn't clear enough to understand. (just incase you miss it yet again look near the bottom of the page where it says Multiple Storage Options).
Back to the 'initial video' not sure if you noticed he mentioned the Phanthom Camera in the first few seconds of it? You do realise the CineMag is an SSD drive and you can record directly to them via built-in?
Such technology is NOT a big deal and is in no way, shape or form revolutionary... the revolutionary thing with the Black Magic camera is recording to codec of choice (including RAW) right out of the box with the included DaVinci software for THREE GRAND!

Practically every camera records to some sort of medium that MUST be 'swappable' be it micro SD, SD, CF even tape... what cameras record to is NEVER the revolutionary thing and Black Magic is NOT the first camera to offer built-in SSD.

Find everthing you can on the Black Magic camera; the built-in SSD recorder is the least thing anyone is talking about because it really is the least thing of any interest. In the camera world the simple truth is everyone knows camera A, B or C MUST record to 'something' - there are a zillion other, more important, things they want to know FIRST! Better still give us a camera with similar specs/larger sensor/same'ish' price with a 'Global shutter' and you'll win far more hearts!
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#13
The revolutionary thing about the camera is the medium upon which it records. That is the revolution. No other camera that i know of dumps recorded signal on SSDs. Blackmagic are the first.
Okay. But does any RED camera or any Sony camera has an inbuilt SSD recorder in them? Please show me a link to such a camera, VB.
Irrespective of you having changed your initial song it is still not not revolutionary nor the first. Just saying... the right info is out there and Google is our friend too (I bet we can find more, even cameras we've never heard of or seen). We all do make mistakes, we're all learning and it's not that big a deal.
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#14
I disagree that the recording medium of SSD is not revolutionary. It is. It opens the recording of uncompressed media to every man because it is cheap. Uncompressed and cheap has never been seen in the same sentence till the advent of SSDs. That is what is revolutionary. Micro SD, SD and CF cards are nowhere near as fast as SSDs and those are what are found in cameras these days. Yes, those are not revolutionary because they are slow. You can't put uncompressed media in them, but you can on SSDs that won't make you break the bank.

SSDs can write and read up to about 550 MB/s. That is about 4.4 Gbits/sec. Taking into consideration that uncompressed HD is 1.5 Gbits/sec, that is almost 3 times the bandwidth that is now open to even amateurs to utilise and you say it is not revolutionary? Since when has such a bandwidth open to anyone below the Hollywood professionals and high end post houses?

Moreover, no recording medium in any camera is that fast and as cheap. We are talking as low as 10 cents per gig here. Absolutely revolutionary in the camera world. Sony's proprietary cards that record high data speed media, do you know how much they cost? Thousands of dollars to buy a card of half a terabyte. And they are no faster than SSDs. What? Not revolutionary, you say? It absolutely is.

Watch the next generation of camcorders aimed at the likes of indie filmers and prosumer market come installed with SSD recorders. Then you will know that the revolution is well and truly underway. At the moment, only the Blackmagic cinema camera has done it but i am expecting the likes of Panasonic, Canon, JVC, Samsung and even Sony to follow soon.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#15
I disagree that the recording medium of SSD is not revolutionary...

Watch the next generation of camcorders aimed at the likes of indie filmers and prosumer market come installed with SSD recorders. Then you will know that the revolution is well and truly underway. At the moment, only the Blackmagic cinema camera has done it but i am expecting the likes of Panasonic, Canon, JVC, Samsung and even Sony to follow soon.
I understand exactly what you are saying. The simple fact is 'recording to SSD is NOT new'. That revolution started years ago. No one cares if it is built-in or bolt-on; that is the least issue anyone has. Recording uncompressed to SSD has been available and cheap for ages!

Again the BlackMagic camera is NOT the first to do it or even the first to do it 'built-in'. I have shown you links that you can easily verify. Stuff has been out there for a while bros. The very first day of NAB 2012 I posted the Original NR BlackMagic Camera Thread... the SSD recording was not and still is not the big talk... longtime available tech. Yes I was excited as you can see when I posted that thread my first line was "OMG!! Just Day-1 at NAB 2012 and I can't help but post this (I wasn't going to post anything on NAB for another week; so yes you can say I'm excited!!!)" and I do understand your excitement now.

The video in this thread that Kala kindly posted has a mention that they just took already existing of-the-shelf stuff to make their camera and keep the 'news' hidden. The great thing that RED and especially BlackMagic have done is kick the so-called big boys in the teeth. We need even more new camera makers to force their hand.

I so completely forgot to mention the Digital Bolex that surprise, surprise has built-in SSD. This was announced months ago but I didn't feel like posting it on NR. Their KickStarter campaign was so successful they almost 'trippled' the $100,000 they wanted to get it off the ground. Indie filmmakers know how 'revolutionary' this camera is that they made $250,000 in 2 yes TWO DAYS.

Let's not argue bro, as said, we all are just learners.
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#17
I never said it is new but making it available to people like us to record on is and having it built in is a lot easier, better and cheaper. Single unit camera system has always been easier to handle than dockable cam systems. They are more compact and lighter... and cheaper. Why buy an extra recorder after you've spent loads on a camera head? Makes no sense to me.

DSLR manufacturers should find a way to work SSD recorders into their cameras to make them that much more interesting. Blackmagic Design has already shown everybody that it can be done without making the cams any bulkier. Recording on slow CF cards or SD cards is uninteresting. Recording 25 to 35 mbit/sec HD media on SD cards is of no interest to me, at least. This is why i never went for any of them DSLRs.

For me, it is the quality of recorded media that really counts and that is the reason why DSLRs have never really interested me. What a camera records is what makes a camera, in my view. No matter how good a camera is, if it is only recording media with low data rate, it is still shyte. Put SSD recorders in them so we can dump uncompressed HD media on them and suddenly, DSLRs are on a completely different level and i'll be getting one, finally.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#20
I never said it is new but making it available to people like us to record on is and building it in is easier and better. Single unit camera system has always been easier to handle than dockable cam systems. They are more compact and lighter... and cheaper. Why buy an extra recorder after you've spent loads on a camera head? Makes no sense to me.

DSLR manufacturers should find a way to work SSD recorders into their cameras to make them that much more interesting. Blackmagic Design has already shown everybody that it can be done without making the cams any bulkier. Recording on slow CF cards or SD cards is uninteresting. Recording 25 to 35 mbit/sec HD media on SD cards is of no interest to me, at least. This is why i never went for any of them DSLRs. Put SSD recorders in them, please.
@ Red Underlined - Forget about the easy-peasy type of shooting we do. People will for certain shots want a 'wired or wireless' dock, recorder, capture capability or whatever we want to call things well away from a camera body... like the camera 'head' being at the end of a 100 foot jib or dumping a load of cameras righ next to a bomb for some crazy shot. The big boys don't care about blowing up 10 cameras with lenses just to get the shot no on else gets. They have been putting DSLRs in tank-like boxes and smashing them... that's easily a $2500 body and a $1200 lens... shall we say times 5 for a 2-5 second shot. So that's a $23,000 shot. Total chicken-feed-change to them.

@ Blue Underlined - I pretty much doubt DSLRs will ever have built-in SSD recorders. Their primary function is being a 'stills' cam. Video is a jara bonus. All this super high bitrates, codecs and whatnot - the audience does not give a hoot or care. Show me any film shot in Nigeria or Ghana on the RED that the final output doesn't look like dog poo. Not a single one looks any good; they do sod all with such heavy data. Common 2D we can't even film yet na 3D film they dey wan make there now. Look at Viva Riva as DSLR film that wiped the floor with Nigeria... yet we're yabbing the film, yabbing AMAA for giving them awards - we're just a bunch of proud idiots always looking for some stupid 'bragging' rights. Pride will ruin us and rightly so.

Oh back to the DSLR thing you can save up your $15,000 and buy the Canon 4K EOS-1D C DSLR that shoots to eerrrmmmmm... CF cards. Oh well, at least it keeps the small-form factor lol.

We really need to stop pixel-peeping and going down the route of my 'thingy' is bigger than your 'thingy' and just learn how to shoot good stuff... 'Nollywood' is pure living proof that tha audience doesn't care what you shoot on.
 
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