Black Magic cinema camera.....almost here...

Status
Not open for further replies.

vince

Well-Known Member
#21
This is where Nigerian filmmakers make huge mistakes when dealing with the gears they use to shoot their movies. VB, change your way of thinking and move up a notch. It is never about what the audience cares about that determines the quality of media pros shoot on but about the studio quality of the media itself, which is of utmost important to any professional. Studio quality allows you to have the best possible media to work with in the studios without image degradation. Audience have zilch to do with it at this stage. When the post is done, then the media can be down-converted to the quality the audience can watch and appreciate.

James Cameron did not shoot Avatar on 35 Mbits/sec quality footages just because he thinks audience won't care. He shot at the highest quality level available to him to work all them fantastic visual effects into the media in the post studios and for your info, only the highest possible media quality will do for movies like Avatar with all those incredible VFXs in it. It is this kind of thinking that makes Hollywood filmmakers stay ahead of any of their contemporaries in the world of moviemaking. The studio quality of your footages is crucial when shooting features or even docus.

My point is very simple, we prosumers now have the possibility of working with very high studio quality media without having to break the bank which, for me, is revolutionary because such opportunity has never existed before now, thanks to SSDs. Prosumers, in the past, have always been limited to 25-35 Mbit/sec media which is okay but really still very limiting studio wise. But because of SSDs, that bottleneck has been removed and we can go higher, much higher. Remember we are talking studio quality now not exhibition quality where what the audience will be seeing comes into consideration.There is a huge difference between studio quality and exhibition quality, bro. You need to remember that if you want to be a true pro.

As for SSDs coming into DSLRs or not, i think we should leave that to the manufacturers themselves. I am sure the market savvy ones like Canon, Panasonic and Sony will latch on to it soon enough. And if not, SSDs will find their way into proper moving image capture cameras like.... camcorders. Personally, i am very happy with this development and can't wait for the nextgen cams to roll out.
@ Red Underlined - Forget about the easy-peasy type of shooting we do. People will for certain shots want a 'wired or wireless' dock, recorder, capture capability or whatever we want to call things well away from a camera body... like the camera 'head' being at the end of a 100 foot jib or dumping a load of cameras righ next to a bomb for some crazy shot. The big boys don't care about blowing up 10 cameras with lenses just to get the shot no on else gets. They have been putting DSLRs in tank-like boxes and smashing them... that's easily a $2500 body and a $1200 lens... shall we say times 5 for a 2-5 second shot. So that's a $23,000 shot. Total chicken-feed-change to them.

@ Blue Underlined - I pretty much doubt DSLRs will ever have built-in SSD recorders. Their primary function is being a 'stills' cam. Video is a jara bonus. All this super high bitrates, codecs and whatnot - the audience does not give a hoot or care. Show me any film shot in Nigeria or Ghana on the RED that the final output doesn't look like dog poo. Not a single one looks any good; they do sod all with such heavy data. Common 2D we can't even film yet na 3D film they dey wan make there now. Look at Viva Riva as DSLR film that wiped the floor with Nigeria... yet we're yabbing the film, yabbing AMAA for giving them awards - we're just a bunch of proud idiots always looking for some stupid 'bragging' rights. Pride will ruin us and rightly so.

Oh back to the DSLR thing you can save up your $15,000 and buy the Canon 4K EOS-1D C DSLR that shoots to eerrrmmmmm... CF cards. Oh well, at least it keeps the small-form factor lol.

We really need to stop pixel-peeping and going down the route of my 'thingy' is bigger than your 'thingy' and just learn how to shoot good stuff... 'Nollywood' is pure living proof that tha audience doesn't care what you shoot on.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#22
This is where Nigerian filmmakers make huge mistakes when dealing with the gears they use to shoot their movies. VB, change your way of thinking and move up a notch...

James Cameron did not shoot Avatar on 35 Mbits/sec quality footages just because he thinks audience won't care...

My point is very simple, we prosumers now have the possibility of working with very high studio quality media without having to break the bank which, for me, is revolutionary because such opportunity has never existed before now, thanks to SSDs...

As for SSDs coming into DSLRs or not, i think we should leave that to the manufacturers themselves. I am sure the market savvy ones like Canon, Panasonic and Sony will latch on to it soon enough. And if not, SSDs will find their way into proper moving image capture cameras like.... camcorders.
I hear what you are saying and do agree with your argument. Where we go wrong is thinking that buying a rocket will turn us into an astronaut... it won't... simply because most of us are too lazy too pay our dues or learn how to do things properly. Until we get the 'basics' covered we are going nowhere.
As for us being limited to 25-35 Mbit/sec mba, cameras have been shooting so much higher than that for such a long time. You know the BBC practically refuses to take anything under 50... of course there are some exceptions.
A camera is just a tool used, there is so much more to making good films than that. We have a lot of 'tools' that is not the problem... again show me one single Nollywood or Gollywood film shot on a RED or the Alexa that looks good... NONE! There really is so much more to it than my camera is 'the best'. Until we stop thinking like that we are going nowhere soon.

Trust me I do think high into the stratosphere. Thinking about what is a good camera to shoot with is the least of my worries. I do know a little bit about capture tools but I want a lot of other things to work well too or my filmmaking process will be rubbish. It's not just one component that makes a good film and I don't want to make a good film... I want to make a GREAT film. I never said 'the audience determines the media one should shoot on' - I said they don't care; they just want to be entertained well and rightly so afterall they are the ones spending their money on films.

Go on Vimeo or Youtube and every idiot keeps on asking "What camera did you shoot on, what lens did you use?" instead of him/her just going out and shooting, building up skills, learning to be creative.
We've been on this site having convos for a while and I can bet my last dime that if the perfect camera hits you in the face you won't recognise it... Why? Because the 'perfect camera' is the camera you have in your hands right now! And that came from a very dodgy way of getting info off J.J Abrams on one of his visits to London a few years ago.

We get so caught up in the 'lastest & best' gear race that we are no longer pushing the boundaries of creativity. Why do you think you can see an awful looking video on YouTube with 10, 20 or 30+ million views? Because it simply entertained the audience and possibly made them laugh or cry.
I'm not saying shoot on the shittiest camera you can find but shoot on whatever is within your budget and in your hand NOW! Not tomorrow... NOW!!!
There is no such thing as a perfect camera; just the right tool for the right job! Vince, start getting the 'job' done. You seem like someone that can if you try... so why don't you just try? You can have a camera that wakes you up in the morning and brushes your teeth but you're still going to have to learn the skills through practice, trial and error.

And again NO the SSD thing is not new. People have been recording onto them for a hot minute now... and have been recording damn good footage onto other things long before SSDs... keep waiting for 'the next best thing' and you'll find you will do nothing but wait and wait and wait. I dunno about you but I certainly don't want to be in the boat full of people that will say at the pearly gates "I didn't do it because I waited for the best camera and it never arrived". Anyone that happens to will be turned away to go and suffer because he/she was a blind idiot.

Time waits for no one. Have told you before stop arguing that you need a camera that does this or that and grab what you can NOW and start getting creative NOW!!
Go and watch Zacuto's Revenge of The Great Camera Shootout 2012... The top guys in Hollywood couldn't tell what frigging camera was what. Infact just for you let me post the links.

Zacuto - Revenge of The Great Camera Shootout 2012
after this video watch the part 1 & 2.
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#23
I think you still have missed the whole point of my contribution to this thread. I am more for the media recorded than the camera itself. If you notice, i don't get too much involved in camera talk because most of them record low data speed media on cards which in turn makes them uninteresting to me, at least.

Of course one still need to learn how to get the best out of these cameras, i know, but these cams still need to be out there. It is only by being available that DPs can learn how to use them. If they are not, they can't be learned or used. Tools are important but knowing how to use them optimally is even more important. This is a given.

RED is still an expensive and incongruous camera for nollywood. You spend like 25K buying it and you still have to spend another 20K for add ons like dockable recorders. Not my idea of a camera, really. I prefer a single and portable unit. Camera and recorder in one body.

I believe Canon made a big mistake not making their latest 300C camera the type that records on SSDs. The body is well suited for such a recorder. If any manufacturer wants to make a really seriously attractive camcorder for the filmers out there, then they must go the SSD way.

I like to work with a camera that records very high quality media without having to pay arm and a leg. This has been the case for the last decade and that is why i never invested anything in cams. For me, data speed rate is very important. When the miniDV cams were the rage, they did not interest me one bit because the media recorded did not match the price they were being touted for. They really were not worth the investment in my view. Instead i bought a DVD cam for myself to play around with. But now, with the advent of SSDs, we will be getting, hopefully, much more camera for the buck. Whether these cams are used optimally is irrelevant, for them to be available for purchase is revolutionary enough for me.

No, i disagree. The perfect camera is the one that gives you the best quality media. your quote is apt for a consumer level shooter, but for someone aspiring to be a real pro, he has to get a cam that gives him the best recorded media. That is the difference between a consumer and a pro.

I do understand what you are saying, though, with the "use whatever you have now" quote, but unfortunately, it does not fly with me. I am like that. nothing i can do about it. BTW, i am buying a €250 HD camcorder that records AVCHD media on SD cards for my personal use till the real HD cinema cam ala the Blackmagic camera comes out. The Blackmagic cam is a damn well priced camera for what it deliver but it is still out of my price range so i'll wait for a cheaper one. The Avid DNxHD codec it uses is pretty damn good, though.
A camera is just a tool used, there is so much more to making good films than that. We have a lot of 'tools' that is not the problem... again show me one single Nollywood or Gollywood film shot on a RED or the Alexa that looks good... NONE! There really is so much more to it than my camera is 'the best'. Until we stop thinking like that we are going nowhere soon.

Trust me I do think high into the stratosphere. Thinking about what is a good camera to shoot with is the least of my worries. I do know a little bit about capture tools but I want a lot of other things to work well too or my filmmaking process will be rubbish. It's not just one component that makes a good film and I don't want to make a good film... I want to make a GREAT film. I never said 'the audience determines the media one should shoot on' - I said they don't care; they just want to be entertained well and rightly so afterall they are the ones spending their money on films.

Go on Vimeo or Youtube and every idiot keeps on asking "What camera did you shoot on, what lens did you use?" instead of him/her just going out and shooting, building up skills, learning to be creative.
We've been on this site having convos for a while and I can bet my last dime that if the perfect camera hits you in the face you won't recognise it... Why? Because the 'perfect camera' is the camera you have in your hands right now! And that came from a very dodgy way of getting info off J.J Abrams on one of his visits to London a few years ago.

We get so caught up in the 'lastest & best' gear race that we are no longer pushing the boundaries of creativity. Why do you think you can see an awful looking video on YouTube with 10, 20 or 30+ million views? Because it simply entertained the audience and possibly made them laugh or cry.
I'm not saying shoot on the shittiest camera you can find but shoot on whatever is within your budget and in your hand NOW! Not tomorrow... NOW!!!
There is no such thing as a perfect camera; just the right tool for the right job! Vince, start getting the 'job' done. You seem like someone that can if you try... so why don't you just try? You can have a camera that wakes you up in the morning and brushes your teeth but you're still going to have to learn the skills through practice, trial and error.

And again NO the SSD thing is not new. People have been recording onto them for a hot minute now... and have been recording damn good footage onto other things long before SSDs... keep waiting for 'the next best thing' and you'll find you will do nothing but wait and wait and wait. I dunno about you but I certainly don't want to be in the boat full of people that will say at the pearly gates "I didn't do it because I waited for the best camera and it never arrived". Anyone that happens to will be turned away to go and suffer because he/she was a blind idiot.

Time waits for no one. Have told you before stop arguing that you need a camera that does this or that and grab what you can NOW and start getting creative NOW!!
Go and watch Zacuto's Revenge of The Great Camera Shootout 2012... The top guys in Hollywood couldn't tell what frigging camera was what. Infact just for you let me post the links.

Zacuto - Revenge of The Great Camera Shootout 2012
after this video watch the part 1 & 2.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#24
Fair enough, I hear ya. All I can say is good luck waiting & waiting & waiting for an SSD built-in recording camera at slightly larger than an SSD with a built-in 5mm-50,000mm lens with continuous f-stop 0.5 shooting 50K res with clean ISO 500,000 for $500... won't happen in 100yrs and people have happily been shooting for over 100yrs.
Also you really don't even have to own a camera to get creative... NOW!!
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#25
Black Magic Cinema Camera 'might' start shipping 2rd week in August!

"Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera

Stock Availability / Shipping Information:

At launch, Blackmagic Design anticipated that customer deliveries of the camera would commence in late July and that date has now passed without any deliveries of the camera.

We have now been told that there is now a 2 week delay, so Blackmagic now anticipate that shipping will commence in the second week of August 2012. We are told that the camera is now 'in manufacturing' and that further delays before first deliveries are unlikely, but at this stage we have been given no information beyond this, so the fact is that at the moment we have no concrete indication with respect to how many we will receive or when they will arrive with us...

Please rest assured that CVP placed an order large enough to cater for all of our current back-orders with Blackmagic Design upon announcement of the camera at NAB 2012, so we are at the front of the queue to receive stock as soon as it ships. As soon as we receive stock it will of course be shipped to our customers in strict order or order placement.

Our experience of similar product launches tells us that it is highly unlikely that we will be delivered sufficient quantity to fulfil our back orders in our first allocation of stock and if that proves to be the case it could take a few months to completely clear the waiting list.

We would therefore like to thank you in advance for your continued patience, whilst looking forward to us delivering you this ground-breaking new electronic cinema camera at the earliest opportunity."

SOURCE
 

Sola

Administrator
Staff member
#28
Blackmagic Cinema Camera delayed after sensor glitch

Blackmagic Design’s innovative Cinema Camera has been hamstrung by flaws in the sensor glass, forcing the company to freeze preorder shipments and re-manufacture them with new, fixed components. Initial supplies of the Cinema Camera had been ready to ship a month ago, but failed production testing after blemishes on the sensor marred the final video. After some investigative digging, CEO Grant Petty says, a series of problems were identified at the sensor supplier.

MORE
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#29
Blackmagic Design’s innovative Cinema Camera has been hamstrung by flaws in the sensor glass, forcing the company to freeze preorder shipments and re-manufacture them with new, fixed components. Initial supplies of the Cinema Camera had been ready to ship a month ago, but failed production testing after blemishes on the sensor marred the final video. After some investigative digging, CEO Grant Petty says, a series of problems were identified at the sensor supplier.

MORE
A darn good compay that keeps customers in the know and responds very quickly to issues and customer wants. Well done BlackMagic!! Afterall we know a 'Certain' Company that would send them out faulty and then ask the Customer to pay for 'repairs' lol.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top