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CNN.com: What's Next for Nollywood?

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#81
1. I can tell you why Chineze announced via imdb that Ije cost 2.5million. it is a distribution strategy MOST independent films use. I don't fault her for it. I just made a point that the line does not sound believable. 600,000 in production and 1.9 in post?
point of correction the $1.9mil was post production and promotion cost not post production cost alone,now from what u said woudn't it be ascertained that that was the same strategy used in sinking sands aswell.

2. who ever said producing a movie at home is cheaper than the states told you a big lie. Producing in the states is way cheaper than at home. you can do deferred pay, get things for free, like fuji sends you end stock for free like crazy, competitive rates because the service providers are over flowing et all. any serious filmmaker will tell you that. More over, Ije was a student film and had so many things for free. I live in LA, I work in the industry, i know what I am talking about. you can't even afford find a proper sound stage at home or equipment. Like they said, sinking sands had to fly in all their equipment, can you imagine how much such a thing will cost? i can point out some great movies to you shot in the states for 5000. spend some time on craigslist and mandy.com. you'll see what I am talking about.
angie i think u are making ur judgetment based on what is being used to make home movies as it is today,do u mean to tell me that to make a movie to the standard of ije here in nigeria is more costly than making it in the US,take the movie the figurine,its estimated budget is N50mil,do u mean to tell me that if this same figurine was produced in america it would cost less than N50mil,if u believe that then u should take a proper and closer look at both industries,don't make ur judgment based on all those $15000-$20000 budget home movies,yes u might get to do deffered pay and get other things for free it still doesn't change the fact that using resources over there is more costly(which would accumulate as production goes on) than back at home.

3. I saw malooned, and via your post, I did some search and saw it was bought. BUT, it opened at a buying and prestigious film festival. Zanzibar. Like I said, Ije has to gather its steem of interest at a prestigious festival where buyers go. So far, note what I said, so far it hasn't. Neither has the figuirine. More over, Malooned is not Ije. I have not seen Ije, but I am willing to bet its a more "innocent" movie than Ije. Ije is a very ambitious in your face film from what I hear. but you are right. no judging until the race it over. But, is she a business woman who can wait 3 years or an independnet independent who does not mind? let us also not forget that, Kenya is a strong country for filmmaking and filmmaking connections. just like south africa which gets all its films distributed. kenya has some great sales agencies too. do we have any in Nigeria?
now my point of bringing malooned up was to dispute ur point that without bankable actors a movie is likely not to sell (aside: even after attaining an acceptable standard),now those distributors at zanzibar were able to buy the movie irrespective of the fact that the movie didn't have bankable actors,isn't that so,like u said she is an independent film maker and as such can do whatever pleases her with her film, i am most definitly sure than when she made this movie,she wasn't relying on sales agents in nigeria which according to u we don't have(aside: probably in the form of marketers) to get her a film distributed,had kunle not said he hadn't gotten a distrubutor,would we have known,so chineze haven't at any time said she hasn't gotten a distributor so i wonder how u are almost certain she hasn't gotten one because probably she might have gotten one and didn't feel the need to come out and shout about it.

4. I think we are all allowed to rave about movies we like. no?
certainly yes,and like i said before,that was one of the reasons i used the movie to make my point.

5. having a strong financial backing only makes you spend more money. A good filmmaker knows not to spend his own money on marketing or P and A. That is what a distributor is for. you are only increasing your budget and decreasing your profit margin. That is why you have sales agencies who do that for you. So you plan from the start and have a sales agency on your side before you even go on set. That is why a lot of independent filmmakers are broke.
like i earlier said before,she is an independent film maker and can spend as much as she feels would properly and heavily show case her movie,angie is there anything to show that she didn't consider all u have mentioned because what u know about ije is only what u have been told so far nothing more.

6. our film makers need education and exposure.
i agree with u on that 100%
 
#82
ADDENDUM: Abeg, forgive me for talking so much but there was a question I wanted to ask raskimono that slipped my mind when I was writing my last reply...

ras, as you've been saying that the revenue from theatrical distribution is too good to miss and it is the future, I'm assuming that your conclusion is based largely on the gross of runaway "hits" like The Figurine and Ije: The Journey.

My question: do you know the net profit of those movies? Is that something you factor into your analysis?

What was the budget for Ije? Obviously it's hard to get a definitive answer to that question, but do you have access to even an estimated figure? I've read that it was $2.5 million... which is obviously bullshit. I remember Angela81 saying at some point that it was $500,000. (Angie, if you're reading this, please feel free to confirm or correct.)

But in any case, if we're to assume that it is $500,000 (roughly N75 million), do you think that a gross of N47 million in 4 months is something that Nigerian producers should *really* be excited about?

Likewise, The Figurine... There's controversy over what the actual budget was, but they say it's N50 million (it's almost certainly less than that, of course), and its gross was something like N25 million, right?

Are these movies actually making their money back?

Of course, there's still revenue to be made from the home video release... And I must emphasize that these grosses are definitely nothing to sniff at, given the extremely limited number of screens. But it brings us back to what I said at the very beginning of this discussion: until there are many more cinemas than we presently have, it's hard to tell how profitable these movies truly are.
The budgets are highly exaggerated. Figurine cost less than 10 million naira. Ije did not come close to costing $1,000,000 in cost. She had a Kodak grant that covered the total cost of post-production. She also got the cameras for free as part of the grant. I know what production costs are. Those are your major costs. Once you take that out, I would be surprised if personal costs totaled more than $100,000.

If someone spends 15,000,000 naira on a movie in Nigeria, you will see the result. Nobody has spent anything close to that. The point is, 50,000,000 naira is a good gross in relation to the cost of producing the movies. I do not want to drag this discussion out with you. I just want to finish it. Even if a producer spent $10,000,000 on a movie, it makes no difference to what I'm saying which is the cinema market is more important than any other ancillary market because more revenue is generated from it. If someone is spending $500,000, na charity be that. Though, I would like to say, if I had $500,000 to spend, I would make my money back. You just have think bigger.

Note: stats are important, very important. Never underestimate stats. It tells a lot. Where do I get them, because they are not online. Don't worry. There are many other ways to get them, like from the distribution reports that come to the studios. You just have to know someone in distribution. That's all.
 
#83
yes 500,000. I am not sure how much she ended up spending on marketing. but even if Ije made all that money, it is going to be shared by the production and silverbird. 50/50 first week, 70/30 second week and subsequent ones. Unless they managed to swindle a better deal out of them.
there is no way ije or figurine are breaking even in Nigerian cinemas. Ghana cinema culture is even worse. That is why I love what Jeta and Leila do by adding an international element hoping to make it into a broader market.
I do think filmmakers need to start making 50% "domesticated" movies and 50% intellectual movies which can travel out our localities too.
I believe there is no split. Silverbird Film Distribution bought the total rights for the picture. Whant Xandria Productions got is what SFD paid for the rights.
 
#84
A note about Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace is NIck Moran's movie. He raised the funds from a grant from the UKFC council and other sources. It's more he hired them than they hired him. In fact, the UKFC lists Amazing Grace as a 100% UK Production.
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
#85
Note: stats are important, very important. Never underestimate stats. It tells a lot. Where do I get them, because they are not online. Don't worry. There are many other ways to get them, like from the distribution reports that come to the studios. You just have to know someone in distribution. That's all.
Well, I never said stats were not important... The question is: what stats are you using, and what conclusions are you drawing from them? You tell me not to worry where you're getting the stats from, but really I should be interested in that; for all I know, you could just be pulling them out of mid-air. But like I said, I choose to take your stats at face value. Even still, your interpretation of the stats is troublesome for me.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the logical flow of saying "If Avatar can gross N80 million, then a Nigerian film can gross N150 million." Now mind you: I'm not saying that a Nigerian movie can't gross N150 million, but I just don't see how that has anything to do with Avatar. I went to Silverbird to see Avatar twice (never actually saw the movie, though; dropped off friends and went to take care of other business) and a lot of the people I saw in the theater were foreigners. (Not saying *all* or even a *majority* of them, but a lot of them.) Also, most of my friends in Lagos who go to Silverbird regularly are (Nigerian) people who have ZERO interest in Nigerian movies. I mean, you couldn't pay them to watch anything that could be described as "Nollywood" no matter how big-budget it supposedly is. But they do go to the theater because they're thrilled that they finally have the chance to see the foreign movies they love the way they're supposed to be seen.

Now I'm not saying that my friends are necessarily typical of everybody who went to see Avatar either, but variables like that illustrate that it's a bit wrongheaded to assume that the audience for Avatar and the audience for this hypothetical N150 million Nigerian movie are the exact same demographic. That's the reason I said that when you are trying to evaluate cinema-going culture, you probably should look at a couple of things beyond just per-screen averages... because that particular figure could mean almost anything.

raskimono said:
Even if a producer spent $10,000,000 on a movie, it makes no difference to what I'm saying which is the cinema market is more important than any other ancillary market because more revenue is generated from it.
And what I'm pondering is the possibility that that there might be a ceiling on the amount of revenue that can be reaped from the cinema market at this point in time.

Let's assume that, as you said, Chineze Anyaeme got everything on Ije for free and didn't spend more than $100,000 out of pocket* (I don't know that to be a fact, but let's assume it is). If that's true, then yes... Xandria made out pretty well with a N50 million gross. (But then, you say that what Xandria really got was whatever flat figure Silverbird paid... Do you know how much that was?)

Anyway, in that case, we could say that Xandria was very lucky to get all that assistance. But does the average (or even above average) Nigerian producer have access to all that help? If a producer spent {whatever Ije would have cost without the grants and wage deferments} out of pocket, as well as all the promotion necessary to open it in the theaters... would they be happy coming out with N50 million at the box office?

You seem to be getting testy (though I'm not sure why, as we're just having a conversation), but at the risk of "dragging out the discussion," I have to ask you one thing: you say that The Figurine did not cost up to N10 million... How much do you think (or know) the budget was?


*Also, if you believe that not more than $100,000 was actually spent on Ije less the free post-production, do you give any credence to the oft-floated story that Genevieve got paid $25,000 for the movie? Because if Omotola was paid comparatively, that's about half of the budget gone right off the top.. This is a side quibble, of course; just interested in knowing what you think.
 

Angela81

Well-Known Member
#86
there is no way I am going to believe that Ije cost only 100,000. hell no!! does kodak give post grants? like pay the editor and all? I doubt that. post production is not only telecine and color correction. I do know panavision gave her the filmmaker grant for the cameras and kodak gave the student grant for film stock. telecine is relatively cheap in LA. I do believe she spent at least 500,000 on the picture to include her marketing. because like I said the pay for most cast and crew were deferred.

secondly, I also refuse to believe Silverbird is not splitting proceeds with her. then why did she do her own trumpeting? she would be stupid to outright "sell rights" to them. you don't ever sell your rights, you license them for a period, and even then, you still have a certain percentage of net. 15/85, 70/30. 35/65 are about the standard. in Ghana, I hear silverbird is 50/50. I doubt Nigeria is any better.

i doubt she made all that noise for silverbird to pocket all her money. that would be ridiculous.
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
#87
secondly, I also refuse to believe Silverbird is not splitting proceeds with her. then why did she do her own trumpeting? she would be stupid to outright "sell rights" to them. you don't ever sell your rights, you license them for a period, and even then, you still have a certain percentage of net.
That's true... Besides, didn't Ije show at Ozone Cinemas too? If it did, then it's pretty unlikely that Silverbird bought the rights to it, isn't it?
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
#89
Silverbird owns ozone its a family thing i think I may be wrong
Yeah, I just looked it up and found that Ozone is an affiliate of the Murray-Bruce Family's Domino group. I didn't know that for sure (though the thought did flit through my mind once or twice)... but it makes sense, I guess.

Okay... my bad on that.
 
#90
Yeah, I just looked it up and found that Ozone is an affiliate of the Murray-Bruce Family's Domino group. I didn't know that for sure (though the thought did flit through my mind once or twice)... but it makes sense, I guess.

Okay... my bad on that.
Went to school with their kids and miss the meatpies and doughnuts from domino....Either way Tkstyl is there a body negotiating the licences between the film makers and silverbird or which ever cinema house do they share the profit...or Do they buy licenses out right for a lump sum of money? if so im sure its not even upto what they make during the run so are the film makers being cheated in way?
 
#91
there is no way I am going to believe that Ije cost only 100,000. hell no!! does kodak give post grants? like pay the editor and all? I doubt that. post production is not only telecine and color correction. I do know panavision gave her the filmmaker grant for the cameras and kodak gave the student grant for film stock. telecine is relatively cheap in LA. I do believe she spent at least 500,000 on the picture to include her marketing. because like I said the pay for most cast and crew were deferred.

secondly, I also refuse to believe Silverbird is not splitting proceeds with her. then why did she do her own trumpeting? she would be stupid to outright "sell rights" to them. you don't ever sell your rights, you license them for a period, and even then, you still have a certain percentage of net. 15/85, 70/30. 35/65 are about the standard. in Ghana, I hear silverbird is 50/50. I doubt Nigeria is any better.

i doubt she made all that noise for silverbird to pocket all her money. that would be ridiculous.
This might be a dead thread so don't bother if it is. Let me ask you a simple question. Would you spend $500,000 to make a Nigerian movie? That's crazy. How do you make your money back?

Don't be like Ts and quibble facts. Sell, license? Ok, I'll say license. It might be in her contract. Why do actors promote movies after they are paid? Why do producers promote movies after they paid? I wouldn't buy your movie, if you would not promote it. It's probably in the contract. If you want to test it, contact Xandria and tell them you want to buy the rights of their movie for Ghana? See what they tell you. Or let's say South Africa for fun.

On that note, everybody license their rights. Every producer license their rights for movies. That's how business is done. You produce a movie. You license the rights to a distributior for a territory for a flat fee, no extras; a flat fee with escalators or a distributor for hire where no flat fee or minimum guarantee, what the flat fee is called. The flat fee is the way majority of movies are sold.

I am not here to quibble facts. I know SFD owns or to use your parlance, the rights were licensed to them.
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
#92
Don't be like Ts and quibble facts. Sell, license? Ok, I'll say license. It might be in her contract. Why do actors promote movies after they are paid? Why do producers promote movies after they paid? I wouldn't buy your movie, if you would not promote it. It's probably in the contract. If you want to test it, contact Xandria and tell them you want to buy the rights of their movie for Ghana? See what they tell you. Or let's say South Africa for fun.
My dude... I don't get where this nasty edge is coming from. Why are you getting pissed and taking style (holla!) to sneak-diss me when all I've done is ask questions because I'm trying to gain understanding of a particular situation?

So I "quibble facts"... What does that mean? Oh, you have a problem because I'm interested in verifying the actual factual content of your statements rather than just accepting it as gospel because you said it? Shame on me, I guess... But considering that the veracity of some of your statements has already been called into question, what do you expect?

You're making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as facts. And hey, we all make assumptions... Sometimes you have to roughly estimate some things based on the information you DO know. But you're suggesting that you have definitive info and yet you get mad when I ask you about it.

Angela81 questioned your assertion that not more than $100,000 was spent on Ije and the notion that Kodak gave Chineze a complete free ride for post-production. And what's your retort to support your statement? "Would you spend $500,000 to make a Nigerian movie? That's crazy. How do you make your money back?"

What does THAT prove? The average Nigerian filmmaker would say the same thing about spending $100,000... so what's your point?

More importantly, though (to me, anyway)... You completely avoided the questions I asked before:

i) Assuming that Chineze DID spend less than $100,000 on Ije thanks to grants and scholarships and student discounts and deferments... If a *regular* Nigerian film producer (who has no access to any of this financial aid and has to work with professional actors who expect to be paid upfront without deferment) wanted to make a movie on the scale of Ije... How much do you think they would end up spending? And do you think they would make the money back in Nigerian (and Ghanaian) cinemas?

ii) Assuming that Xandria's take from Ije is the flat fee that Silverbird paid to license, or purchase (whatever) the rights to the movie, around how much do you guess Silverbird might have paid?

Because, I don't know... I just find it hard to imagine them paying much more than N10 million or so... I mean, that's just a guess on my part, based on Silverbird's traditional indifference towards Nigerian movies up until recenty and the relatively poor showing of the movies they'd tried up until now... I don't know if they could have anticipated Ije doing as well as it has, and I can't see them taking the risk to throw mega-huge bucks at it.

I'll thank you to answer these questions.
 

moviewizard

Well-Known Member
#93
Yeah, I just looked it up and found that Ozone is an affiliate of the Murray-Bruce Family's Domino group. I didn't know that for sure (though the thought did flit through my mind once or twice)... but it makes sense, I guess.

Okay... my bad on that.
Yes Ozone is like an affiliate company too......and Ije was in Ozone, Silverbird and Genesis Deluxe....
 
#96
My dude... I don't get where this nasty edge is coming from. Why are you getting pissed and taking style (holla!) to sneak-diss me when all I've done is ask questions because I'm trying to gain understanding of a particular situation?

So I "quibble facts"... What does that mean? Oh, you have a problem because I'm interested in verifying the actual factual content of your statements rather than just accepting it as gospel because you said it? Shame on me, I guess... But considering that the veracity of some of your statements has already been called into question, what do you expect?

You're making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as facts. And hey, we all make assumptions... Sometimes you have to roughly estimate some things based on the information you DO know. But you're suggesting that you have definitive info and yet you get mad when I ask you about it.

Angela81 questioned your assertion that not more than $100,000 was spent on Ije and the notion that Kodak gave Chineze a complete free ride for post-production. And what's your retort to support your statement? "Would you spend $500,000 to make a Nigerian movie? That's crazy. How do you make your money back?"

What does THAT prove? The average Nigerian filmmaker would say the same thing about spending $100,000... so what's your point?

More importantly, though (to me, anyway)... You completely avoided the questions I asked before:

i) Assuming that Chineze DID spend less than $100,000 on Ije thanks to grants and scholarships and student discounts and deferments... If a *regular* Nigerian film producer (who has no access to any of this financial aid and has to work with professional actors who expect to be paid upfront without deferment) wanted to make a movie on the scale of Ije... How much do you think they would end up spending? And do you think they would make the money back in Nigerian (and Ghanaian) cinemas?

ii) Assuming that Xandria's take from Ije is the flat fee that Silverbird paid to license, or purchase (whatever) the rights to the movie, around how much do you guess Silverbird might have paid?

Because, I don't know... I just find it hard to imagine them paying much more than N10 million or so... I mean, that's just a guess on my part, based on Silverbird's traditional indifference towards Nigerian movies up until recenty and the relatively poor showing of the movies they'd tried up until now... I don't know if they could have anticipated Ije doing as well as it has, and I can't see them taking the risk to throw mega-huge bucks at it.

I'll thank you to answer these questions.
There is no nasty edge. You quibble facts. This conversation began with a simple assertion, that movies need to be made for the cinema.You disagreed. You said the home video is still the primary market. Most cinema release is just for show. You never made a case that the home video market is bigger. You don't believe that. You know it's not. I wrote it so we must argue.

We are arguing budgets now, something you brought up. Why do I say what i do? I don't know the budget of Ije. By the way, I have seen Ije. But I know what it costs to make a movie when you have your grants supporting you. Also, I know there is no fixed post-production costs, even from Kodak. You are can spend 2,000,000. You can spend less than a 100,000. It depends on what you want done. There is no fixed cost. You tell them what you want done. They can do basic processing for what is essentially peanuts. the grant generally covers that basic processing. I know a UCLA filmaker who got that same grant. Kodak covered the whole film processing and post. It's basic. It's nothing flashy, just the minimum. Ije looks like that. Anyway, the main thing is it's an opinion.It's an opinion based on what I've seen other filmmakers do here. You are taking me to task on an opinion. That's okay. The way you do it is selective. Other people make statements. You don't do that. It's why I ignore you and will go back to doing that.

But what is annoying is I already answered it. Why you beating on budgets is beyond me. It's irrelevant to what i said. It doesn't matter what the budget is. Nothing else generates the kind of revenue the cinema does. Simple. You know that. If you made a movie, you would not send to the home video market alone. You would send it to the cinema. That was the statement. Asking me about budgets and all is neither here or there. BUt that's what you do. You like ignore the main question and send off tangents which is no longer about fact but opinion. If someone wants to spend whatever they spend, that's their business and lose a lot of money, good for them. But I'll say this. I work from common sense. I assume Xandria Productions has common sense. That lady is more intelligent than me. Common sense tells me she would not spend over $100,000. Kunle Afolayan is too smart to spend 50,000,000 naira on a movie, no matter what he tells the press. In fact, I have it from good sources, it cost under 10,000,000 naira if that. I know people who report 130,000,000 naira to the press while the budget is under 6,000,000 naira. The last statement I just made, I know to be a fact. It is based on such info that I generally cut down the budgets. Anyway, I don't care what they spend. There is no fight in it for me. The main point which started is that movies need to made for the cinema. I stand by that.

My problem with you though is your subjective nature. My very first post on this sight was an article I posted. It was an article about fighting piracy of Nigerian movies in the US. My quote under the post, was it seems they are actually making attempts to catch these guys. Your response was "The article does not actually say anything is being done to catch them." It was beside the point, but it was true, the article never actually made the statement. Fine. Sola commented on that same article and made the same comment i did. You did not attack him in the same manner or disagree with him. You wrote a very conciliatory post that lacked any bark or pointed out what the article did not say. That's your nature. I don't enjoy it.

Quibbling facts. Angela knows very well that when a movie is licensed, the expression is used we sold the rights or more colloquially, we sold the movies to whatever country a distributor bought the rights for. They talk like that in Variety, The Hollywood Reporter and other movie industry trades. When you see interviews, the producer say we sold our rights to so and so country. That's how people talk. Though, it's licensing in the legal term. But there is colloquial speech. She knows that. Shejust wants to argue or be indifferent. Quibbling facts. Is it a defensive stance? I don't get such behavior. I don't think like that so I don't get it. It's also what you do so I made teh comparison.

I think fundamentally what interests me on Naija rules does not interest other people and the few people it interests are very pugilistic or view me as a sparring partner. How can I find many ways to disagree with waht you are saying when I fundamentally agree with you. It's no fun. There is no joy in it. Most importantly, it's not my nature and I don't enjoy it.

My response to you is you're right. I'm not sure what you are right about but you are right because an opinion cannot be a fact. No point quibbling over opinions. Opinion is an opinion. I can't be more than that. I will say this. I don't believe you think these filmmakers are losing money. I know you don't even believe the budgets but it's a good way for you to drag it out. You enjoy it. I don't. But I agree. You are right.
 

Sola

Administrator
Staff member
#97
I think fundamentally what interests me on Naija rules does not interest other people and the few people it interests are very pugilistic or view me as a sparring partner.
I hope not. A bunch of you guys have knowledge/experience that is uncommon and the rest of us learn a lot from your contributions. We all just need to find a way to exchange ideas and facts without letting the little stuff get in the way.
 

wendydoks

Well-Known Member
#99
My problem with you though is your subjective nature. My very first post on this sight was an article I posted. It was an article about fighting piracy of Nigerian movies in the US. My quote under the post, was it seems they are actually making attempts to catch these guys. Your response was "The article does not actually say anything is being done to catch them." It was beside the point, but it was true, the article never actually made the statement. Fine. Sola commented on that same article and made the same comment i did. You did not attack him in the same manner or disagree with him. You wrote a very conciliatory post that lacked any bark or pointed out what the article did not say. That's your nature. I don't enjoy it.


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i agree. ts is very selective when it comes to attacking people. and its not just him.
 
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