CNN.com: What's Next for Nollywood?

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takestyle

Well-Known Member
There is no nasty edge. You quibble facts. This conversation began with a simple assertion, that movies need to be made for the cinema.You disagreed. You said the home video is still the primary market. Most cinema release is just for show. You never made a case that the home video market is bigger. You don't believe that. You know it's not. I wrote it so we must argue.
Oh yes. I know it's so convenient and so easy to paint mean ol' TS as the belligerent bad guy here, but let's not rewrite history, yeah?

I realize that this conversation has changed course so many times (not necessarily MY fault,mind you) to the point that it's hard to even remember what the discussion was about in the first place! Well, let me strip it down and correct your account for you:

The conversation began with raskimono posting a link that said that certain foreign-based Nigerian filmmakers were "what's next for Nollywood."

I said that guys who live abroad and work under completely different conditions from the average Nigeria-based filmmaker, and who seem primarily concerned with getting their movies into European festivals do NOT represent "what's next for Nollywood."

I said they're a parallel stream to Nollywood, but they work in a different environment, they have different objectives. God bless them, I wish them the best in whatever they're doing, but their world is not the same world as the commercial Nigerian film industry that's been dubbed "Nollywood."

At this point, raskimono jumps in and says that I am "being harsh on these guys." Harsh how? Did I insult them? All I said that if you take a Nigerian filmmaker who lives in London or New York and makes a movie with grants and allowances from film schools and other organizations and doesn't pay the cast and crew.... That filmmaker is not living and working in the same reality as Chico Ejiro or Teco Benson.

Then raskimono asserts that the point is that cinema must become the primary market for Nollywood. I say that I've felt that for a number of years due to the problems of piracy, but at the moment there are too few cinemas in Nigeria to truly say and for now it is an experiment, and in some cases, even a gimmick.

Skipping forward through some digressions, raskimono makes the point that cinema must be the primary medium because it generates more revenue and that is that. raskimono says that if Avatar did N80 million with the current number of theaters, then a Nigerian movie should bring in N150 million.

I introduced the question of budget because ultimately, the goal is not just to bring in "revenue".... It's to actually make a PROFIT. You might bring in more revenue, but if your expenditure is also considerably higher, then what is your profit margin?

I used Ije as an example: The movie's PR claims the movie cost like $2.5 million (which I dismissed outright). Angela81 (from whatever her sources are) suggested that it is closer to $500,000 (N75 million). So I simply asked: Okay, Ije making N50 million in the cinema is exciting, but if N75 million was spent on it, is it really a victory? (By the way,Ije is a student film and I don't think Anyaene's primary goal is necessarily to make a profit... Her reward from this will be in securing further, higher-profile work.)

My point is: with only 6 theaters in Nigeria at this point, is there a cap on the amount of revenue that can be realized from the cinema?

(Please forgive me for recapping all this stuff... I just want to streamline the main points so that we can see exactly what the argument here is. I am going somewhere with this...)

Okay, raskimono then says that Ije was probably made with less than $100,000 because of the generous financial aid received by the filmmaker. Which brought me back to my initial point: "Nollywood" producers don't have financial aid. Their reality is different from the reality that produced Ije. What Ije is doing is great, but unless all the Ejiros and Amatas and Chikeres and Ojukwus are going to go and enroll in NYFA and try to get grants, Ije is probably not their future.

At this point, raskimono is saying "Of course the makers of Ije and The Figurine didn't spend a lot of money... They're not stupid. If they spend $500,000, how are they going to make it back?" (ie he agrees with me that there is a cap on the amount that can be made)

But previously he was arguing that a Nigerian movie can make N150 million from 6 theaters and that it will happen when producers start pouring MORE money into their budgets.

The point is: I don't even understand what this kid's point is because he keeps changing it. And when I try to have a discourse with him to try to understand, I'm a bully, I'm "pugilistic," I "quibble facts."

"Quibble facts"? If by that he means that I try to live in the world of reality rather than fantasy... Then yes, I want facts.

I swear, I am puzzled by this whole thing. Is he offended because I happen to have a different opinion from him? I'm trying to remember if there was any point in this discussion that I abused him or something... What the hell is going on here?

raskimono said:
We are arguing budgets now, something you brought up. Why do I say what i do? I don't know the budget of Ije. By the way, I have seen Ije. But I know what it costs to make a movie when you have your grants supporting you. Also, I know there is no fixed post-production costs, even from Kodak. You are can spend 2,000,000. You can spend less than a 100,000. It depends on what you want done. There is no fixed cost. You tell them what you want done. They can do basic processing for what is essentially peanuts. the grant generally covers that basic processing. I know a UCLA filmaker who got that same grant. Kodak covered the whole film processing and post. It's basic. It's nothing flashy, just the minimum. Ije looks like that.
Then why the hell didn't you just SAY that instead getting all passive-aggressive when people asked you questions about it?

raskimono said:
Anyway, the main thing is it's an opinion.It's an opinion based on what I've seen other filmmakers do here. You are taking me to task on an opinion. That's okay. The way you do it is selective. Other people make statements. You don't do that. It's why I ignore you and will go back to doing that.
Oh poor you. The big bully has singled you out and is picking on you every day and taking your lunch money.

Get over yourself, dude. I ask questions of EVERYBODY here is they say some stuff that piques my interest or doesn't sit well with me.

raskimono said:
But what is annoying is I already answered it. Why you beating on budgets is beyond me. It's irrelevant to what i said. It doesn't matter what the budget is. Nothing else generates the kind of revenue the cinema does. Simple.
It matters if you're spending ten naira to produce a movie and making a revenue of seven naira which you then share with the cinema.

In the real world (where *I* live), that kind of thing sort of DOES matter. But please...let me not start talking about reality...or "quibbling facts," as we call it now.

raskimono said:
You know that. If you made a movie, you would not send to the home video market alone. You would send it to the cinema. That was the statement. Asking me about budgets and all is neither here or there. BUt that's what you do. You like ignore the main question and send off tangents which is no longer about fact but opinion.
Actually, I didn't tangent off from the fact to the opinion. Your assertion that cinema is the future is an opinion as much as anything else is. And I countered with another opinion. I apologize if that hurt your feelings.

raskimono said:
But I'll say this. I work from common sense. I assume Xandria Productions has common sense. That lady is more intelligent than me. Common sense tells me she would not spend over $100,000.
That argument actually makes no sense at all, but I'm not going to bother explaining why so that you don't claim I'm "attacking" you. Your common sense was previously saying that Nigerian movies can make N150 million from 44 screens because Nigeria's cinema culture is on par with Italy's and hence more money should be poured into budgets. Your position changes so much, I can't even deal with it.

Besides, I want to address the part of your essay that is actually kind of annoying me:

raskimono said:
My problem with you though is your subjective nature. My very first post on this sight was an article I posted. It was an article about fighting piracy of Nigerian movies in the US. My quote under the post, was it seems they are actually making attempts to catch these guys. Your response was "The article does not actually say anything is being done to catch them." It was beside the point, but it was true, the article never actually made the statement. Fine. Sola commented on that same article and made the same comment i did. You did not attack him in the same manner or disagree with him. You wrote a very conciliatory post that lacked any bark or pointed out what the article did not say. That's your nature. I don't enjoy it.
You know...I don't really remember this piracy article and my response that seems to have got a bee in your bonnet but let me ask you something:

In my response to you, did I call you a fool, a jerk, or otherwise personally insult you in any way?

No?

Oh, what was it? I just happened to express a dissenting opinion or an observation I had otherwise made about the article? And that's what you're crying about? I see.

Or because I supposedly didn't yell at Sola the same way I yelled at you. Something like that. Despite the fact that I have had vigorous, yet civil disagreements with Sola, sidney, funmo, Angela81 and many others here...It's only raskimono that I pick on.

Just checking.

Because I think I'm sensing a pattern... I express an opinion different from yours and you freak out and start screaming that I am "attacking" you and "bullying" you.

Bros, do you...But if you are THAT sensitive... THAT fragile... life must be really tough.

But do you.

raskimono said:
My response to you is you're right. I'm not sure what you are right about but you are right because an opinion cannot be a fact. No point quibbling over opinions. Opinion is an opinion. I can't be more than that. I will say this. I don't believe you think these filmmakers are losing money. I know you don't even believe the budgets but it's a good way for you to drag it out. You enjoy it. I don't. But I agree. You are right.
Okay. First of all, you don't KNOW what I think. I am asking these questions because I genuinely am interested. Sorry if my injection of reality into the discussion punctures your comfortable fantasy.

I know how much it costs to produce a 35mm "cinema-level" movie and I'm interested in knowing how possible it is for filmmakers to recoup their expenses in the current Nigerian reality. That is the reason I am asking. Not because I "enjoy dragging the conversation out" with you.

Hey...It's true: I do LOVE an energetic debate... but only with a worthy partner. The truth is that I really don't find you that interesting to talk to.

So please:By all means, carry on ignoring me, okay? I'd really appreciate that!





LOL @ the Mariama Ba "So Long a Letter"-ass post...
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
Quibbling facts. Angela knows very well that when a movie is licensed, the expression is used we sold the rights or more colloquially, we sold the movies to whatever country a distributor bought the rights for. They talk like that in Variety, The Hollywood Reporter and other movie industry trades. When you see interviews, the producer say we sold our rights to so and so country. That's how people talk. Though, it's licensing in the legal term. But there is colloquial speech. She knows that. Shejust wants to argue or be indifferent. Quibbling facts. Is it a defensive stance? I don't get such behavior. I don't think like that so I don't get it. It's also what you do so I made teh comparison.
And just for the record: What Angela did was quibble SEMANTICS, not facts.

I don't do that.

(What I am doing right now as I type this reply IS quibbling facts however... I don't care!)

What I don't understand, though, is that if you had beef with Angela... why not just address her without bringing my name into it? Especially after you've made the decision to ignore me? That's really bitchy behavior, if you ask me.

Don't worry: I don't expect a response... This post is completely rhetorical.

Just came to mind.
 

barbarellanoir

Well-Known Member
I hope not. A bunch of you guys have knowledge/experience that is uncommon and the rest of us learn a lot from your contributions. We all just need to find a way to exchange ideas and facts without letting the little stuff get in the way.
@bolded Sola, that's the problem though. The "little stuff" becomes "big stuff", and it DOES get in the way. Not every one has the time and patience to argue...seriously. It seems that some folk view the ability/willingness to argue from page to page as a sign of intelligence. Some people confuse being heavily opinionated with being highly intelligent, and some folk cannot and will not accept that you don't agree with them, and you're okay with it ( it's not that serious for me). The need to be right overrules clear judgement. The beefs on this site are almost formulaic in nature.

just my rusty 2 cents
 

Sola

Administrator
Staff member
I think its perfectly alright for folks to argue. It is in differences that we get to know others better, and maybe learn something from the words thrown around. Even a little tension is fine, as long as it is done in controlled language. I think the impression is rampant here that when you debate, it means you're trying to win at whatever cost. That may not be the case, in all sincerity. But we all ought to be sensitive enough to discern when not to keep flogging a horse that's already dead, discussion-wise. We should know when to just let things go. People are different and the difference benefits our interactions. It would be boring here if we all thought and acted alike. Let's find a common ground in live and let live.
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
@bolded Sola, that's the problem though. The "little stuff" becomes "big stuff", and it DOES get in the way. Not every one has the time and patience to argue...seriously. It seems that some folk view the ability/willingness to argue from page to page as a sign of intelligence. Some people confuse being heavily opinionated with being highly intelligent, and some folk cannot and will not accept that you don't agree with them, and you're okay with it ( it's not that serious for me). The need to be right overrules clear judgement. The beefs on this site are almost formulaic in nature.
To me, it's completely fine if someone does not have the time, patience or willingness to argue. If at any point, raskimono had just said "I don't feel like talking about it," that would have been the end of it for me.

But instead, rask kept on responding to me, each time introducing statements and "facts" that only invited further questions because he kept changing positions and then getting mad when I asked the questions! It's like he was trying to have it both ways at the same time: He's saying he wants to end the discussion but at the same time he's trying to "win" it!

And I put "win" in quotes because really.... it's not even about winner and loser here for me. I'm sincerely trying to understand something from someone who is implying (or in some cases saying outright) that he has information that I'd like to know... and he's upset with me for asking! If you don't know, just say you don't know! It's not a big deal!

raskimono says that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing because when I questioned whether movies made for the cinema were the future of Nollywood, I didn't "prove that the home video market was bigger." But when did I ever say that the home video market was bigger? That was never my point.

My point was that raskimono was neglecting the fact that while the cinema brings in more (and *supposedly*--though not really) more transparent revenue, it also involves a much greater initial expenditure. So I'm asking if with just 6 theaters existing right now, can these movies gross enough to break even on that expenditure after subtracting the percentage that is paid to the theaters?

That's all I asked! What was so wrong about that?

No joke, this whole thing is just baffling me. If the dude didn't want to talk, he should have just said so and it would have been the end of it...Instead he continued to try to force his point on me with the logic of "This is the reality and you need to accept it because I am telling you!" and then when I ask for a few facts that would make his point easier for me to digest, I'm "quibbling."

Shoot... if anybody is the victim of "bullying" here, it's me! :spin2:
 

ssergit

..still The Drama Queen!
I think its perfectly alright for folks to argue. It is in differences that we get to know others better, and maybe learn something from the words thrown around. Even a little tension is fine, as long as it is done in controlled language. I think the impression is rampant here that when you debate, it means you're trying to win at whatever cost. That may not be the case, in all sincerity. But we all ought to be sensitive enough to discern when not to keep flogging a horse that's already dead, discussion-wise. We should know when to just let things go. People are different and the difference benefits our interactions. It would be boring here if we all thought and acted alike. Let's find a common ground in live and let live.
Wisely spoken words indeed.
 

wendydoks

Well-Known Member
And what is it that I am supposed to be afraid of?
for starters, everyone is afraid of something, and insecure about another. but there exist a thin line between borderline normalcy and sickness. i like how you said "supposed to". you, my dear, are a coward. and i dont use it as an escape route from my insecurities like you do. anyway, i didnt expect you to admit to anything. carry on...
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
for starters, everyone is afraid of something, and insecure about another. but there exist a thin line between borderline normalcy and sickness. i like how you said "supposed to". you, my dear, are a coward. and i dont use it as an escape route from my insecurities like you do. anyway, i didnt expect you to admit to anything. carry on...
Okay, I'm a coward.

I still don't understand what it is that I'm afraid of... You, perhaps?

Or let me try to figure this out. You were saying that I am selective in the people that I "attack." I guess because it's been said that I don't "attack" Sola in the way that I "attack" you.

Have you considered that it might be because Sola doesn't write the dumb shit that you routinely do? Did that cross your mind?

Sola is my elder and I respect that. He is also the proprietor of this site and I feel it's pretty bad form to insult a man in his own house. But even apart from that, he hasn't even given me any reason to insult him. And if you scan through my posting history here, I've never insulted anybody who didn't insult me first anyway.

I hope that puts this matter to rest for you.

(I should note that the only reason I am even replying to this nonsense right now is because I'm a bit bored... otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time in such a silly discussion.)
 
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