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CNN.com: What's Next for Nollywood?

Discussion in 'FILMMAKING, INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY' started by rudeboy, Nov 17, 2010.

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  1. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. I know it's so convenient and so easy to paint mean ol' TS as the belligerent bad guy here, but let's not rewrite history, yeah?

    I realize that this conversation has changed course so many times (not necessarily MY fault,mind you) to the point that it's hard to even remember what the discussion was about in the first place! Well, let me strip it down and correct your account for you:

    The conversation began with raskimono posting a link that said that certain foreign-based Nigerian filmmakers were "what's next for Nollywood."

    I said that guys who live abroad and work under completely different conditions from the average Nigeria-based filmmaker, and who seem primarily concerned with getting their movies into European festivals do NOT represent "what's next for Nollywood."

    I said they're a parallel stream to Nollywood, but they work in a different environment, they have different objectives. God bless them, I wish them the best in whatever they're doing, but their world is not the same world as the commercial Nigerian film industry that's been dubbed "Nollywood."

    At this point, raskimono jumps in and says that I am "being harsh on these guys." Harsh how? Did I insult them? All I said that if you take a Nigerian filmmaker who lives in London or New York and makes a movie with grants and allowances from film schools and other organizations and doesn't pay the cast and crew.... That filmmaker is not living and working in the same reality as Chico Ejiro or Teco Benson.

    Then raskimono asserts that the point is that cinema must become the primary market for Nollywood. I say that I've felt that for a number of years due to the problems of piracy, but at the moment there are too few cinemas in Nigeria to truly say and for now it is an experiment, and in some cases, even a gimmick.

    Skipping forward through some digressions, raskimono makes the point that cinema must be the primary medium because it generates more revenue and that is that. raskimono says that if Avatar did N80 million with the current number of theaters, then a Nigerian movie should bring in N150 million.

    I introduced the question of budget because ultimately, the goal is not just to bring in "revenue".... It's to actually make a PROFIT. You might bring in more revenue, but if your expenditure is also considerably higher, then what is your profit margin?

    I used Ije as an example: The movie's PR claims the movie cost like $2.5 million (which I dismissed outright). Angela81 (from whatever her sources are) suggested that it is closer to $500,000 (N75 million). So I simply asked: Okay, Ije making N50 million in the cinema is exciting, but if N75 million was spent on it, is it really a victory? (By the way,Ije is a student film and I don't think Anyaene's primary goal is necessarily to make a profit... Her reward from this will be in securing further, higher-profile work.)

    My point is: with only 6 theaters in Nigeria at this point, is there a cap on the amount of revenue that can be realized from the cinema?

    (Please forgive me for recapping all this stuff... I just want to streamline the main points so that we can see exactly what the argument here is. I am going somewhere with this...)

    Okay, raskimono then says that Ije was probably made with less than $100,000 because of the generous financial aid received by the filmmaker. Which brought me back to my initial point: "Nollywood" producers don't have financial aid. Their reality is different from the reality that produced Ije. What Ije is doing is great, but unless all the Ejiros and Amatas and Chikeres and Ojukwus are going to go and enroll in NYFA and try to get grants, Ije is probably not their future.

    At this point, raskimono is saying "Of course the makers of Ije and The Figurine didn't spend a lot of money... They're not stupid. If they spend $500,000, how are they going to make it back?" (ie he agrees with me that there is a cap on the amount that can be made)

    But previously he was arguing that a Nigerian movie can make N150 million from 6 theaters and that it will happen when producers start pouring MORE money into their budgets.

    The point is: I don't even understand what this kid's point is because he keeps changing it. And when I try to have a discourse with him to try to understand, I'm a bully, I'm "pugilistic," I "quibble facts."

    "Quibble facts"? If by that he means that I try to live in the world of reality rather than fantasy... Then yes, I want facts.

    I swear, I am puzzled by this whole thing. Is he offended because I happen to have a different opinion from him? I'm trying to remember if there was any point in this discussion that I abused him or something... What the hell is going on here?

    Then why the hell didn't you just SAY that instead getting all passive-aggressive when people asked you questions about it?

    Oh poor you. The big bully has singled you out and is picking on you every day and taking your lunch money.

    Get over yourself, dude. I ask questions of EVERYBODY here is they say some stuff that piques my interest or doesn't sit well with me.

    It matters if you're spending ten naira to produce a movie and making a revenue of seven naira which you then share with the cinema.

    In the real world (where *I* live), that kind of thing sort of DOES matter. But please...let me not start talking about reality...or "quibbling facts," as we call it now.

    Actually, I didn't tangent off from the fact to the opinion. Your assertion that cinema is the future is an opinion as much as anything else is. And I countered with another opinion. I apologize if that hurt your feelings.

    That argument actually makes no sense at all, but I'm not going to bother explaining why so that you don't claim I'm "attacking" you. Your common sense was previously saying that Nigerian movies can make N150 million from 44 screens because Nigeria's cinema culture is on par with Italy's and hence more money should be poured into budgets. Your position changes so much, I can't even deal with it.

    Besides, I want to address the part of your essay that is actually kind of annoying me:

    You know...I don't really remember this piracy article and my response that seems to have got a bee in your bonnet but let me ask you something:

    In my response to you, did I call you a fool, a jerk, or otherwise personally insult you in any way?

    No?

    Oh, what was it? I just happened to express a dissenting opinion or an observation I had otherwise made about the article? And that's what you're crying about? I see.

    Or because I supposedly didn't yell at Sola the same way I yelled at you. Something like that. Despite the fact that I have had vigorous, yet civil disagreements with Sola, sidney, funmo, Angela81 and many others here...It's only raskimono that I pick on.

    Just checking.

    Because I think I'm sensing a pattern... I express an opinion different from yours and you freak out and start screaming that I am "attacking" you and "bullying" you.

    Bros, do you...But if you are THAT sensitive... THAT fragile... life must be really tough.

    But do you.

    Okay. First of all, you don't KNOW what I think. I am asking these questions because I genuinely am interested. Sorry if my injection of reality into the discussion punctures your comfortable fantasy.

    I know how much it costs to produce a 35mm "cinema-level" movie and I'm interested in knowing how possible it is for filmmakers to recoup their expenses in the current Nigerian reality. That is the reason I am asking. Not because I "enjoy dragging the conversation out" with you.

    Hey...It's true: I do LOVE an energetic debate... but only with a worthy partner. The truth is that I really don't find you that interesting to talk to.

    So please:By all means, carry on ignoring me, okay? I'd really appreciate that!





    LOL @ the Mariama Ba "So Long a Letter"-ass post...
     
  2. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's true. I attack stupid people more. Which is why you're a favorite target.
     
  3. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    And just for the record: What Angela did was quibble SEMANTICS, not facts.

    I don't do that.

    (What I am doing right now as I type this reply IS quibbling facts however... I don't care!)

    What I don't understand, though, is that if you had beef with Angela... why not just address her without bringing my name into it? Especially after you've made the decision to ignore me? That's really bitchy behavior, if you ask me.

    Don't worry: I don't expect a response... This post is completely rhetorical.

    Just came to mind.
     
  4. wendydoks

    wendydoks Chickala si odeshi

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    it shows wat a coward you are.
     
  5. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    And what is it that I am supposed to be afraid of?
     
  6. rudeboy

    rudeboy Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, cowards may never say what they themselves are afraid of. Heroes at least guess.
     
  7. barbarellanoir

    barbarellanoir Well-Known Member

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    @bolded Sola, that's the problem though. The "little stuff" becomes "big stuff", and it DOES get in the way. Not every one has the time and patience to argue...seriously. It seems that some folk view the ability/willingness to argue from page to page as a sign of intelligence. Some people confuse being heavily opinionated with being highly intelligent, and some folk cannot and will not accept that you don't agree with them, and you're okay with it ( it's not that serious for me). The need to be right overrules clear judgement. The beefs on this site are almost formulaic in nature.

    just my rusty 2 cents
     
  8. Sola

    Sola Administrator
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    I think its perfectly alright for folks to argue. It is in differences that we get to know others better, and maybe learn something from the words thrown around. Even a little tension is fine, as long as it is done in controlled language. I think the impression is rampant here that when you debate, it means you're trying to win at whatever cost. That may not be the case, in all sincerity. But we all ought to be sensitive enough to discern when not to keep flogging a horse that's already dead, discussion-wise. We should know when to just let things go. People are different and the difference benefits our interactions. It would be boring here if we all thought and acted alike. Let's find a common ground in live and let live.
     
    ssergit, takestyle and barbarellanoir like this.
  9. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    To me, it's completely fine if someone does not have the time, patience or willingness to argue. If at any point, raskimono had just said "I don't feel like talking about it," that would have been the end of it for me.

    But instead, rask kept on responding to me, each time introducing statements and "facts" that only invited further questions because he kept changing positions and then getting mad when I asked the questions! It's like he was trying to have it both ways at the same time: He's saying he wants to end the discussion but at the same time he's trying to "win" it!

    And I put "win" in quotes because really.... it's not even about winner and loser here for me. I'm sincerely trying to understand something from someone who is implying (or in some cases saying outright) that he has information that I'd like to know... and he's upset with me for asking! If you don't know, just say you don't know! It's not a big deal!

    raskimono says that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing because when I questioned whether movies made for the cinema were the future of Nollywood, I didn't "prove that the home video market was bigger." But when did I ever say that the home video market was bigger? That was never my point.

    My point was that raskimono was neglecting the fact that while the cinema brings in more (and *supposedly*--though not really) more transparent revenue, it also involves a much greater initial expenditure. So I'm asking if with just 6 theaters existing right now, can these movies gross enough to break even on that expenditure after subtracting the percentage that is paid to the theaters?

    That's all I asked! What was so wrong about that?

    No joke, this whole thing is just baffling me. If the dude didn't want to talk, he should have just said so and it would have been the end of it...Instead he continued to try to force his point on me with the logic of "This is the reality and you need to accept it because I am telling you!" and then when I ask for a few facts that would make his point easier for me to digest, I'm "quibbling."

    Shoot... if anybody is the victim of "bullying" here, it's me! :spin2:
     
  10. ssergit

    ssergit ..still The Drama Queen!

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    Wisely spoken words indeed.
     
  11. wendydoks

    wendydoks Chickala si odeshi

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    for starters, everyone is afraid of something, and insecure about another. but there exist a thin line between borderline normalcy and sickness. i like how you said "supposed to". you, my dear, are a coward. and i dont use it as an escape route from my insecurities like you do. anyway, i didnt expect you to admit to anything. carry on...
     
  12. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'm a coward.

    I still don't understand what it is that I'm afraid of... You, perhaps?

    Or let me try to figure this out. You were saying that I am selective in the people that I "attack." I guess because it's been said that I don't "attack" Sola in the way that I "attack" you.

    Have you considered that it might be because Sola doesn't write the dumb shit that you routinely do? Did that cross your mind?

    Sola is my elder and I respect that. He is also the proprietor of this site and I feel it's pretty bad form to insult a man in his own house. But even apart from that, he hasn't even given me any reason to insult him. And if you scan through my posting history here, I've never insulted anybody who didn't insult me first anyway.

    I hope that puts this matter to rest for you.

    (I should note that the only reason I am even replying to this nonsense right now is because I'm a bit bored... otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time in such a silly discussion.)
     
  13. wendydoks

    wendydoks Chickala si odeshi

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    AKUKO! i guess i gotta state my age and own the site too. dumbest statement ever!
     
  14. takestyle

    takestyle Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should.

    Not typing like a mentally ill person anymore would probably help, too.
     
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