How it is made: Let's talk movie efx

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Field Marshal

ABSOLUTE SUPREME RULER
#21
It will (with issues as the lens barrel will move) but if you look at the f stop number which is f3.5-5.6 - you're basically screwed if you want to shoot at night = too dark, compensate with a high iso number and it'll introduce a hell of noise into the video. Also with stock lenses (remembering we're cheating and using a stills cam for HD video) when you zoom in with them they will change apeture = screwed video!
Buy a 'Body only' 60D and a fast prime lens!

The 'night' film I posted a while ago was shot with my Zeiss 50mm T*1.4 and I think we never used an apeture less than 2.0 and iso's between 320-1250.

Not gonna lie to you. These cams are bloody cheap, shoot shit hot film-like video BUT are a total pain in the ass to use, however, on the bright side it CAN be done.

PS - I hate you guys in Yankee. In the UK our body only price is more than that body+lens in the USA, you lucky buggers!
Excellent points there. I will look into your suggestions.

Edit: I just called to price the 50mm T*1.4 at a local Camera store and they have it for $369.99. Things are getting interesting!
 

Field Marshal

ABSOLUTE SUPREME RULER
#24
Having said that I do use the 18-55mm and 70-300mm stock lenses (both f3.5-5.6) I own BUT only in sunshine and I never zoom or pull focus with them.
I may end-up buying the entire package KIT with accessories that include both Body and lens (18-135mm f3.5-5.6) and buy the 50mm T*1.4 lens at a later time.


instead of a DSLR have you considered using the Sony HXR MC50u/e
a small but mighty HD 64gb camera?
No, I haven't considered it. I actually like the features of the DSLR. That is being able to take Stills and shoot videos. I will look into your suggestions, though.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#25


instead of a DSLR have you considered using the Sony HXR MC50u/e
a small but mighty HD 64gb camera?
You do realise that the MC50E is a third inch chip... actually a bit smaller than third inch? To get anything that even remotely looks film-like will require add-ons of about £4000.00 - so basically not so good now.
It doen't even have a focus ring, a frigging dial WTF???????
Sony have been doing that for years... making toys that they call semi-pro or pro cams.

The Sony cam similar to this Panasonic AG-AF101 | PhotographyBLOG (Sony PMW-F3) is going to cost 3 or 4 times as much or there abouts. With only a few extras so how do they justify the price???
 

ssergit

..still The Drama Queen!
#27
:confused:

The one that got me was in this Van Vicker movie(can't remember the name), where this guy was shooting at Vicker's character with a small hand gun but the pistol was making machine gun sound efx:confused:
:roll :roll Are you kidding? machine gun sound for pistol shot? lwkmd!
I don't know why as I read this ya post, the image of a chihuahua barking and the sound of a bulldog coming out of the mouth came to my mind., ha ha ha ha
Chai, Nolly, Golly firewood people! :roll
 

Kala Lou

Well-Known Member
#28
You do realise that the MC50E is a third inch chip... actually a bit smaller than third inch? To get anything that even remotely looks film-like will require add-ons of about £4000.00 - so basically not so good now.
It doen't even have a focus ring, a frigging dial WTF???????
Sony have been doing that for years... making toys that they call semi-pro or pro cams.

The Sony cam similar to this Panasonic AG-AF101 | PhotographyBLOG (Sony PMW-F3) is going to cost 3 or 4 times as much or there abouts. With only a few extras so how do they justify the price???
What attracted me to the MC50E initially was its size. I was in the market looking for a hard drive for my sony HVR Z1U when I decided to go with the MC50E instead. I've only taken this camera out for a field test once, I used it with a small video light at a dimly lit night club. I was very impressed with the image and sound quality. The dial doesn't bother me that much cause I rarely use manual focus...I'm happy with my MC50E.....but before I make my next camera purchase..abeg I go seek your expertise...e be like say you know a lot about cameras...thanks in advance, my broda...
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#29
What attracted me to the MC50E initially was its size. I was in the market looking for a hard drive for my sony HVR Z1U when I decided to go with the MC50E instead. I've only taken this camera out for a field test once, I used it with a small video light at a dimly lit night club. I was very impressed with the image and sound quality. The dial doesn't bother me that much cause I rarely use manual focus...I'm happy with my MC50E.....but before I make my next camera purchase..abeg I go seek your expertise...e be like say you know a lot about cameras...thanks in advance, my broda...
Hey bro, good to hear you are happy with the cam. The simple fact is - as a filmmaker 'the best camera is THE camera you have NOW'... not what we dream about, not what they say they will make in 2 yrs. A bird in hand is what let's us film TODAY.
Also what subjects and type of filming we do gets taken into account. I hear you, I'm the opposite... I never use any auto functions and I generally look at cams from a 'let's-get-a-big-budget-film-look-for-cheap' point of view and that is what made the the tiny DSLR's a revolutionary change in the filmmaking world despite the issues they have.

Yes they have now started to make (as per previous post) actual 'video cams with stills cam size sensors. The 'Panny' linked in the previous post is about $5000 but does not yet have a large enough variety of lenses.

Nooooo my bro, I'm not an expert at all but am lucky enough to have used a lot of different cameras (not mine)... I wish and I also 'ahem' spend far, far too much time online; reading and watching stuff about cameras and filmmaking.

You might not have seen it but this is the post about the short we were talking about earlier, hope you enjoy it! - http://www.naijarules.com/vb/members-special-projects-forum/37234-first-rough-cut-short-film.html
 

ssergit

..still The Drama Queen!
#30
True dat. But jokes apart there are damn cheap ways to a age a person. We had a guy in a short film that was transformed from a 30ish year old to a 70yr old - no prosthetics, just simple make-up (diff) colours. It cost us about £40 - 20.00 for make-up, 10 for make-up gals travel card and 10 for her food for the day. And as that was our final yr project we found it to be a 'very expensive' bit of trickery lol.
If I can grab some screen shots sometime I'll email the 'before and after' images to you.
I just watched your 'Une Clope' vimeo and it is absolutely awesome. Well done..... The lighting is great....

one thing that bothers me though is lighting a black man is a deep pain...
just last week, I was shooting a drama series and on this scene, in a house, (sitting room)...the female is a bit light skinned, and the male in that scene is like charcoal dark kinda black!! Oh my! trying to set the light for her not to be too bright and his facial features to be seen was a headache! And I noticed this same problem on couple other shoots I've been to....it takes DOPs longer time to light a scene with very dark poeple than with lighter skin color....
someone once said the camera was not meant for the blackman :-(....but, black people used to look really good on black n white reels....
any tip or take? Am shooting this weekend with people of many shades and studio is rented for only 2 hours (so, less time to adjust and stress) .....working with chroma green screen....help!
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#32
I just watched your 'Une Clope' vimeo and it is absolutely awesome. Well done..... The lighting is great....

one thing that bothers me though is lighting a black man is a deep pain...
just last week, I was shooting a drama series and on this scene, in a house, (sitting room)...the female is a bit light skinned, and the male in that scene is like charcoal dark kinda black!! Oh my! trying to set the light for her not to be too bright and his facial features to be seen was a headache! And I noticed this same problem on couple other shoots I've been to....it takes DOPs longer time to light a scene with very dark poeple than with lighter skin color....
someone once said the camera was not meant for the blackman :-(....but, black people used to look really good on black n white reels....
any tip or take? Am shooting this weekend with people of many shades and studio is rented for only 2 hours (so, less time to adjust and stress) .....working with chroma green screen....help!
Hey there, glad to hear you liked ‘Une Clope’. Yep, lighting for darker skinned people is a pain… mainly because we like shooting them against ‘famous ‘white/very light Nollywood’ walls teehee. Hmmmm, going to try to answer your questions as simply as possible, it’ll be very rough and not an ‘exact’ truth to make it easier to grasp.

If you can; do place dark people against a darkish background and in darker clothes – obviously this is never always possible. The reason is… what do you expose for? The dark face or the white T-shirt???… especially with a video camera that can’t handle such different latitudes.
They (black people) looked good in the old films because of the amount of information in ‘film stock’, as well as the final grading… basically what you can do with a ‘digital’ 4:4:4 colour space with a latitude of say 14,15,16 (but I won’t go into that as it’s bloody complex). And I’m guessing you're not shooting on a RED cam or an ALEXA at the moment.

What can help as a solution? Simple… just CHEAT! DOP’s do it on shoots everyday!

How?

Very dark skinned person, very light skinned person in the same shot and it has to look good? – You are screwed without a big budget and a controlled space! No you’re not, really you’re not.

No one has to know what your lighting set-up was like on set, well no one watching the end product will know or care what you did. It's not really cheating; it's just not conventional!

KEY light the dark person and FILL light the light person or place them in different positions with the light-skinned person further away from the light than the dark-skinned person.
To put it in easier language – (an example only - DO NOT do this on set without using a monitor to check) let's say the light for the dark person is 6ft away, then put the light for the light person 12ft away to half the intensity – Not entirely true because I think the intensity has just become ¼ for the light-skinned person. But I did mention I’d talk some crap to make it easy for anyone to get the general gist.
(I’m also making total assumptions about your lights). Dimmable lights would be a great option so you’re not pissing about moving lights to quarter and half distances and so on.
Now if they have to be on the exact same plane use different lights that you CAN control.

It really is all about control to get the final image you want… unfortunately ‘our’ people, in most cases, don’t really have the patience for that control.
Yes lighting takes a while for EACH shot. (Directors do take note).

For the studio shoot, it’s hard to say what you should do without knowing the available lights or the set-up.

Just noticed what you wrote –
Oh my! trying to set the light for her not to be too bright and his facial features to be seen was a headache!
By saying THE light, did you have just ONE light to work with? If so, that’s almost impossible to get the right exposure for both people at the same time in a 2-shot. In that case change the shots to an over-the-shoulder shoot where each person is lit and exposed correctly… Or punch the director for demanding a 2-shot as well as the producer for not getting you enough lights… just a joke; DON’T do that.

Anyway back to your studio shoot. A green-screen studio (or any studio) should have a grid of ceiling lights that will make your job easier to direct light to the darker people. Have you checked their set-up?
Pain in the ass method is to go for an average exposure and then fix it in the edit – totally not recommended for green-screen work as the person that has to key it in the edit will definitely want you dead.
What is the storyboard for the shoot like? Can’t you shoot each person on their own and then combine it in the edit.
Hey!!! How many people are you guys even shooting against the green-screen at once????
It sounds like a small crowd – that’s gonna make it much harder to get things right.

Personally, I myself and me lol, would shoot each individual on their own.
Do you guys intend to shoot them as close-ups, mediums or full length?

Then you have to think about your cam and the resolution being shot at and what the final output is. If green-screening more than one person full length; a trick is to tilt the cam 90 degrees – the end product won’t loose resolution BUT you have to have an editor that seriously knows what the hell they are doing in post.

I’m going to stop here because I have not really given you an answer. I hope you can pick some ideas from this but I’ll really need more info about the shoot from you so we can figure out what your options are.


PS - Are you in Lagos bro? Cos I was in Lagos about 3wks ago and really wanted a green-screen studio. Info I beg cos I'll be back there soon.
 

ssergit

..still The Drama Queen!
#33
Thank you awesome much. You actually answered my question and also gave me more creative ideas. Thank you.

And to answer some of yours too...
- yes, it is a small crowd,
- last shoot I did with the black and fair people....we had to direct more lights at the black dude and less light on the fair chica. And it was still very dark (i mean, him, except when he smiled, his white teeth showed very well. lol just kidding)...my editor promised he would compensate during editing.
- No, am not in lagos, but would be heading there soon, and a studio is definitely needed in that place. will keep you updated, I'll actually ask a couple of my movie paddies there if any is available.

- And thanks for the idea, I think I'll just shoot some people on green screen and others on white background, as the studio has different walled-sections....

And thanks for the trash bags idea.. (to create 'night')...that is amazing and obviously lighter than carrying around blankets over a window. :)

worst comes to worst, I guess, I can opt for half-light shot like this: http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00007XtLdu49854/s....afterall, all na 'effects' abi? That can't be too hard to create, we'll just push all the lights to one side of the studio :roll (lazy me!)

Hey there, glad to hear you liked ‘Une Clope’. Yep, lighting for darker skinned people is a pain… mainly because we like shooting them against ‘famous ‘white/very light Nollywood’ walls teehee. Hmmmm, going to try to answer your questions as simply as possible, it’ll be very rough and not an ‘exact’ truth to make it easier to grasp.
.........
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#34
Thank you awesome much. You actually answered my question and also gave me more creative ideas. Thank you.

- And thanks for the idea, I think I'll just shoot some people on green screen and others on white background, as the studio has different walled-sections....

And thanks for the trash bags idea.. (to create 'night')...that is amazing and obviously lighter than carrying around blankets over a window. :)

worst comes to worst, I guess, I can opt for half-light shot like this: http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00007XtLdu49854/s....afterall, all na 'effects' abi? That can't be too hard to create, we'll just push all the lights to one side of the studio :roll (lazy me!)
Hey,

Glad to hear you found my reply useful enough to get some ideas out of.

Depending on what you are trying to do my advice would be shoot all of them on the green screen and don’t mix green with white backgrounds to be used in the ‘same’ final shot…. But you can, if you have to, bring the keyed GS people onto the white BG plate.

The half-light shot is NOT done in post; it is a lighting style called ‘Chiaroscuro’ (originated in painting during the Renaissance) – and anything ‘good’ finds its way into photography and film. If I remember correctly German Expressionism films used this style a lot; as well as film Noir.

It’s easy enough to do if BOLD contrast is the look you want. Light the person from one ‘side’ and move them till you get the result you want. Just a single light source is needed and a way to block it to create shadows.
 

takestyle

Well-Known Member
#35
I hate it when they ketchup for blood because ketchup is neither the right shade of red nor the right consistency to resemble blood. Red poster color is no better.

It's very easy to make convincing (and edible) blood with corn syrup, water, and red food dye. I usually like to add a little bit of chocolate powder too, to give a darker, more realistic hue. And on top of all that, it's delicious too!
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#36
I hate it when they ketchup for blood because ketchup is neither the right shade of red nor the right consistency to resemble blood. Red poster color is no better.

It's very easy to make convincing (and edible) blood with corn syrup, water, and red food dye. I usually like to add a little bit of chocolate powder too, to give a darker, more realistic hue. And on top of all that, it's delicious too!
Very well said TS. Never tried the choc powder thing... also depends if it's 'fresh' blood or 'older' blood.
 

Village-Boi

Well-Known Member
#38
Village-Bobo..... tenk u o! I don dey look Adobe CS5 witi de cona of mai eye since u open mai eye to dat DSLR bizness o! I don dey look look Canon 60D, but on de oda side Canon 7D dey wink me eye too much! Me sef no sabi which wan to get. :( I go try buy am (Adobe CS5) using that ya student idea o! :D
Hey bros, did you still end up picking up a 60D? Mine has relegated my 7D to a 'B cam'. I totally love the 60D and it's a million times better with the 'Magic Lantern' hack! 7D sucks for overheating!
 

Field Marshal

ABSOLUTE SUPREME RULER
#39
Hey bros, did you still end up picking up a 60D? Mine has relegated my 7D to a 'B cam'. I totally love the 60D and it's a million times better with the 'Magic Lantern' hack! 7D sucks for overheating!
V-Boi, Budgetary constraints prevented me from getting the 60D, but I have my mind set on getting it by the end of the second quarter of this year. Wetin be "Magic Lantern" hack? Is this some kind of software or hardware add on? :confused:


Edit: A Google search explained the "Magic Lantern", but a hands on insight from you will be highly appreciated. :D
 

vince

Well-Known Member
#40
Editing alone won't get you anywhere with the gunshot effects, kala. You need a good effect and compositing software(ala after effects) with professional plugins for gunshot effects and a capable operator get it done properly.
As for realistic gunshot effects, that can be achieved through good editing...
I noticed with a lot of nolly movies that the gunshot effects are very bad, no gunshot flash and bad sound effect....with Final Cut Studio you can create a muzzle flash with the motion software and apple has a number of gunshot sound efx in Garrage Band..
 
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