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Nigerians- Most Educated In U.S

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vince

Well-Known Member
Acquisition of knowledge should not be an end in itself(which it is to a lot of nigerians),but a means to an end.The question now is,what is that end?
We seem to falsely overcelebrate the means while we fall flat on using it for an end that should benefit us all as a people or race.
Getting a degree or two is nothing but a start of a long journey to that end.One should only jubilate and celebrate when that end is reached successfully.
So the question again,what is that end?What do we want to use the knowledge acquired(means) for?That is the big question.
Waste it developing other people's civilizations and getting no credits for the trouble,or going back to develop our own civilization and be bathed with glory,against all the odds?
Which one makes better sense?Which one commands more respect?
 

Sola

Administrator
Staff member
Getting a degree or two is nothing but a start of a long journey to that end.One should only jubilate and celebrate when that end is reached successfully.
One should celebrate every little achievement. Who says one will live to reach the so-called "end"?
 

vince

Well-Known Member
One should celebrate every little achievement. Who says one will live to reach the so-called "end"?
One could die trying."A beautiful death",it is called,if i can borrow that line from a hollywood movie.Dying without even trying to start that journey is a fate worse than hell,IMO.
 

The Maverick

Well-Known Member
Acquisition of knowledge should not be an end in itself(which it is to a lot of nigerians),but a means to an end.The question now is,what is that end?
We seem to falsely overcelebrate the means while we fall flat on using it for an end that should benefit us all as a people or race.
Getting a degree or two is nothing but a start of a long journey to that end.One should only jubilate and celebrate when that end is reached successfully.
So the question again,what is that end?What do we want to use the knowledge acquired(means) for?That is the big question.
Waste it developing other people's civilizations and getting no credits for the trouble,or going back to develop our own civilization and be bathed with glory,against all the odds?
Which one makes better sense?Which one commands more respect?
Oga Vince, your generalizing of "degree holders" as no good doers for our country is what is nagging me. Do you send money home? Do you come here and post ferverently about technological advances that can aid Nollywood? Are those not contributions? Must you be involved with politics to make a contribution? We are already using those degrees to make contributions that's a fact.

Ok, so you want us to go back and develop our own country so we can get more credit and be bathed in glory? Tell me this, why is it that whenever a major development project comes up, the government sends out RFIs to international companies in Europe and America to bid on it? Don't we have engineering firms in Nigeria? If they awarded those design/build contracts to the Nigerian firms, believe me, our engineers abroad will go home and work. Even if they feel the companies at home might not be capable of getting the job done, at least award it to them, and make it a criteria that they must partner with a company that can do it. That way some of that money stays in the country. They (the government...the proverbial "THEY")need to initiate this.

The people are the governement? Yeah, in a real democratic state, unfortunately Nigeria is not one. No argument there...so let's not even go there. When the relics stop appointing their friends to come in and take over, and cover their tracks, and allow the people to vote for whom they want to lead them, then I along with all other voters, can feel as though we're part of that government. But I am not, and that's the sad truth! That will soon change though...these same degree holders that are doing no good, are already making effort to liberate Nigeria from the grip of colonial mentality, and set the country on a path of true democracy.
 

The Maverick

Well-Known Member
This is blowing the mind of some of my Naija co-workers.... Wow.. It's funny but not....
My guy, this is what I've been trying to point out. We know it, but some don't want to admit it. Yes we have a lot of problems as a country, but our government is the biggest and worst of them all. And that's what people outside our communities are beginning to see too. How can you make a significant difference when the resources, power, and money are in the hands of a few that are misusing it and won't give you a chance. And if you dare challenge them, you will not only be liable for your own death, but that of your family and any unfortunate soul in your blood line within their path. Look at Dele Giwa, Ken Sarowiwa and many others. Why has Achebe refused to go back to Nigeria, will you accuse him of not contributing...between him, Soyinka, and a few others, they literally put us on the map in the world of intelligentia and their contributions are global.
 
Wow! The people on this site, dem sabi book o. See dis big, big grammer wey dem dey blow for here!:1087:

I love the discourse here so far, and I believe that, as in all things in life, the answer is somewhere in the middle. I agree with Mav that it is difficult to contribute to a nation that is so resistant to positive change like Nigeria. That is sooo true. And while everybody likes to quote Mrs Iweala and the contributions she made to the Nigerian financial landscape, can anyone please upgrade my memory as to what happened to her in the end? Was she not transferred to another ministry after being used,and then pressurized into resigning?

I also however agree with those who point out that personal achievement without national development is big title with nothing to show for it. Truth is that as Naija we love titles, we love degrees, we love to talk about achievements, but we refuse (sometimes) to see the bigger picture. Unfortunately, the problem with naija and why diasporans cannot help her is not limited to education or no education. Its another symptom of the systemic rot the pervades our entire polity.

Of course the main question everyong blowing grammer in this thread has to answer is this: Which comes first - chicken or egg? Do you wait for the system back home to become more conducive before you return to build on an existing foundation, or are your required to return before that foundation can be built?

Someone mentioned Nollywood for instance. It is an instructive and fascinating case study. Even before the so called illiterate marketers built up the industry, Herbert Ogunde and his contemporaries had a cinema industry up and running after a fashion. Yet today, Rudeboy , Pompom and film director can return home and add their technical expertise to an industry that exists. They built it from home, but diasporans have the ability to take it to the next level. It doesn't have to be that way of course. Can the water problem be solved without govt involvement by individuals? Electricity nko? Solar energy and private equity?

I wonder about these things a lot of course. And there are no easy conclusions. The home environment is harsh. Perhaps the answer is not on either extreme, but like I said in the beginning, in the middle. We need each other. We complement each other. And perhaps if we can get away from the finger pointing and crab bucket mentality, perhaps we can work together to build a better nation.

So am I proud of the news of many degrees? Not really. I would be really proud of anyone who can figure out a systematic method of utilizing those degrees back home, working in concert with those back home. The possibilities are endless you know - water, electricity, educational planning, music, movies, architecture, urban planning, etc, etc, etc. The news has the potential to be exciting. Just not yet.
 

sidney

Well-Known Member
My guy, this is what I've been trying to point out. We know it, but some don't want to admit it. Yes we have a lot of problems as a country, but our government is the biggest and worst of them all. And that's what people outside our communities are beginning to see too. How can you make a significant difference when the resources, power, and money are in the hands of a few that are misusing it and won't give you a chance. And if you dare challenge them, you will not only be liable for your own death, but that of your family and any unfortunate soul in your blood line within their path. Look at Dele Giwa, Ken Sarowiwa and many others. Why has Achebe refused to go back to Nigeria, will you accuse him of not contributing...between him, Soyinka, and a few others, they literally put us on the map in the world of intelligentia and their contributions are global.
Even the US State Department lists it as a Nigerian website....

Federal Government Web sites - U.S. Diplomatic Mission Abuja, Nigeria

Very shameful.. I'm sure they simply moved their site and domain and didn't settle the bill.
 

Irinajoeda

OPOMULERO MOJALEKAN
Wow! The people on this site, dem sabi book o. See dis big, big grammer wey dem dey blow for here!:1087:

I love the discourse here so far, and I believe that, as in all things in life, the answer is somewhere in the middle. I agree with Mav that it is difficult to contribute to a nation that is so resistant to positive change like Nigeria. That is sooo true. And while everybody likes to quote Mrs Iweala and the contributions she made to the Nigerian financial landscape, can anyone please upgrade my memory as to what happened to her in the end? Was she not transferred to another ministry after being used,and then pressurized into resigning?

I also however agree with those who point out that personal achievement without national development is big title with nothing to show for it. Truth is that as Naija we love titles, we love degrees, we love to talk about achievements, but we refuse (sometimes) to see the bigger picture. Unfortunately, the problem with naija and why diasporans cannot help her is not limited to education or no education. Its another symptom of the systemic rot the pervades our entire polity.

Of course the main question everyong blowing grammer in this thread has to answer is this: Which comes first - chicken or egg? Do you wait for the system back home to become more conducive before you return to build on an existing foundation, or are your required to return before that foundation can be built?

Someone mentioned Nollywood for instance. It is an instructive and fascinating case study. Even before the so called illiterate marketers built up the industry, Herbert Ogunde and his contemporaries had a cinema industry up and running after a fashion. Yet today, Rudeboy , Pompom and film director can return home and add their technical expertise to an industry that exists. They built it from home, but diasporans have the ability to take it to the next level. It doesn't have to be that way of course. Can the water problem be solved without govt involvement by individuals? Electricity nko? Solar energy and private equity?

I wonder about these things a lot of course. And there are no easy conclusions. The home environment is harsh. Perhaps the answer is not on either extreme, but like I said in the beginning, in the middle. We need each other. We complement each other. And perhaps if we can get away from the finger pointing and crab bucket mentality, perhaps we can work together to build a better nation.

So am I proud of the news of many degrees? Not really. I would be really proud of anyone who can figure out a systematic method of utilizing those degrees back home, working in concert with those back home. The possibilities are endless you know - water, electricity, educational planning, music, movies, architecture, urban planning, etc, etc, etc. The news has the potential to be exciting. Just not yet.

...but who is NIGERIA???
 

Ayesha

InaAni - Classic Beauty
Even the US State Department lists it as a Nigerian website....

Federal Government Web sites - U.S. Diplomatic Mission Abuja, Nigeria

Very shameful.. I'm sure they simply moved their site and domain and didn't settle the bill.
Moved it to where? We get problem in the department of maintenance sha.. so goes to show you how if a simple website can't be maintained, the road to my village will never be tarred.. and I know now they will say since we have a degree from the Diaspora, it is our civic duty to build roads to right??? When we get so much money from oil and gas and yet the profit cannot be used to build capital projects in Nigeria yet it is the fault of the too many Diasporan degrees..

Nigeria we hail thee sha..
 

The Maverick

Well-Known Member
...but who is NIGERIA???
The government is Nigeria. Let me explain. Take the US for instance, when a US citizen travels outside the country, she automatically becomes a representative of US and all its policies regardless of if she agrees with the policies or not. In her case, since things work in the US, she may have or not had a chance to vote on those policies, but it doesn't matter now, she's viewed based on the policies of her country because to the outside world what the government says and does is a representation of the people, therefore the government is the people.

The same goes for Nigeria, only that in our case, the people had no hand in the government. The term democracy (government of the people, by the people, for the people) doesn't apply. It's all in theory. The people vote, the ballots are burnt, the powers that be appoint who they want anyway. They make up their laws and policies, and that's what outsiders see and take for being Nigeria.

The GOVERNMENT IS NIGERIA! Simple, case closed on this one!
 
...but who is NIGERIA???
All right, I will give you a concrete example to explain what I mean by harsh environment and resistant to change.

Case 1) American trained medical doctor decided to return home and set up a hospital in his hometown. He relocated, sold off his belongings, bought hospital equipment worth lots o mula, and put them in storage while he got the hospital location ready. When he went back to storage to get his stuff, he discovered - all gone! He had been robbed blind of all his stuff. It was later rumoured that the robbery was arranged by the herbalists in the town who were afraid of losing business if an oyinbo style hospital came to town. The guy was so traumatized, he dusted his certificates and moved to Saudi.

So who is Nigeria - our returnee friend? The thieves and herbalists, or the hapless villagers who got no hospital? Or all of the above?

Case 2) The case of the missing transformers. I am pretty sure that everyone has heard this story or some variant of it in their neighborhoods in naija.

the story goes thus: NEPA finally decided to put a transformer in a neighborhood that did not have light for a long time. They installed that thing, the whole neighborhood rejoiced, and everyone was happy. The next morning, the tranformer was gone. Rumour had it that someone who had made a lot of money supplying gen sets to the neighborhood was responsible. Actually, this story may be a parable for the entire Nigerian electricity system, which I hear is being sabotaged for the same reason.

So who is Nigeria? And how do you as a progressive Nigerian plan to deal with the unprogressive ones?

While you make a good point as to how we all need to go home and change the world and all that patriotic stuff, you cannot minimize the nightmare that many have faced and continue to face when they get home and a gun is held to their head, or they are robbed of all they have, or their knowledge is utilized without compensation - in a system that has no respect for intellectual property, etc, etc. Its not a trivial argument, and it must be factored into your story for your case to hold water.
 

Ayesha

InaAni - Classic Beauty
All right, I will give you a concrete example to explain what I mean by harsh environment and resistant to change.

Case 1) American trained medical doctor decided to return home and set up a hospital in his hometown. He relocated, sold off his belongings, bought hospital equipment worth lots o mula, and put them in storage while he got the hospital location ready. When he went back to storage to get his stuff, he discovered - all gone! He had been robbed blind of all his stuff. It was later rumoured that the robbery was arranged by the herbalists in the town who were afraid of losing business if an oyinbo style hospital came to town. The guy was so traumatized, he dusted his certificates and moved to Saudi.

So who is Nigeria - our returnee friend? The thieves and herbalists, or the hapless villagers who got no hospital? Or all of the above?

Case 2) The case of the missing transformers. I am pretty sure that everyone has heard this story or some variant of it in their neighborhoods in naija.

the story goes thus: NEPA finally decided to put a transformer in a neighborhood that did not have light for a long time. They installed that thing, the whole neighborhood rejoiced, and everyone was happy. The next morning, the tranformer was gone. Rumour had it that someone who had made a lot of money supplying gen sets to the neighborhood was responsible. Actually, this story may be a parable for the entire Nigerian electricity system, which I hear is being sabotaged for the same reason.

So who is Nigeria? And how do you as a progressive Nigerian plan to deal with the unprogressive ones?

While you make a good point as to how we all need to go home and change the world and all that patriotic stuff, you cannot minimize the nightmare that many have faced and continue to face when they get home and a gun is held to their head, or they are robbed of all they have, or their knowledge is utilized without compensation - in a system that has no respect for intellectual property, etc, etc. Its not a trivial argument, and it must be factored into your story for your case to hold water.
5 THUMBS UP!!!!!!!!!!!

You know my mom's doctor was telling us that a couple of them decided to put money together and got a grant from the US Government to build a school for Nurses in Nigeria.. (Lagos to be precise).. So they went to buy land.. The run around the government gave them was not enough and they had a $1.6 million dollar grant to send nurses and dr's alike to teach and train the Nigerian Nurses.. .How about the government told them to pay bribe and frustrated them out of Nigeria to Ghana..

My dear, I have countless stories of things like this.. I once did project accounting for a company in America that got funds from Pfizer to build a clinic in Uganda for HIV/AIDS testing and treatment.. I asked them if they could replicate that in Nigeria and the CEO told me.. "ChiChi.. We tried Nigeria first and the bribe they asked for was ridiculous.. We were willing to train Nigerian Dr's and Nurses to be at the clinic so we can help the job situation in Nigeria but we were asked to pay a substantial amount of money to see that land purchase and building come through" So my people.. believe me there are others that want to help but the Imma mmadu in Nigeria is not helping the situation!
 

Irinajoeda

OPOMULERO MOJALEKAN
The government is Nigeria. Let me explain. Take the US for instance, when a US citizen travels outside the country, she automatically becomes a representative of US and all its policies regardless of if she agrees with the policies or not. In her case, since things work in the US, she may have or not had a chance to vote on those policies, but it doesn't matter now, she's viewed based on the policies of her country because to the outside world what the government says and does is a representation of the people, therefore the government is the people.

The same goes for Nigeria, only that in our case, the people had no hand in the government. The term democracy (government of the people, by the people, for the people) doesn't apply. It's all in theory. The people vote, the ballots are burnt, the powers that be appoint who they want anyway. They make up their laws and policies, and that's what outsiders see and take for being Nigeria.


The GOVERNMENT IS NIGERIA! Simple, case closed on this one!

I'm well aware of the process of democracy but all the same, thanks for the 101.

So you say the government is Nigeria, right? Now, my subsequent question is: Are you Nigerian? And do you believe that Nigerians make Nigeria?
 

Abike

Well-Known Member
Funmo, THANK you for bringing up some of those realities some have faced when they've tried to go back and contribute to Nigeria....I've had ideas that I wanted to propose to those I work with (some in the healthcare field) that would immensely benefit Nigeria, but each and every time I hesitate because a part of me is SCARED/AFRAID that examples like the ones in funmo's post may end up happening to the equipments, gadgets, donations, etc that are sent from here to Nigeria.....

Until I have made a legitimate contact in Nigeria that'll help and not ask for their share of "Egunje", then perhaps we'll see more outreaches like these taking place...
 
F

filmdirector

Guest
I think what is being said is simple and actually makes sense. Let's say America was a monarchy and every succession was made by the king and his inner court. The people were only privy to their ruler after the fact, would you still say the people were the govt?

Taking the analogy losely - Most Nigerians do not think the people in power were people they voted in. The rich with the money and power are putting whomever they want in place. So the people are helpless and can't be blamed for the government and can not be called the government. Unless we want a revolution but that's a different story.

But looking at the half full glass - there are more voices of dissent within Nigeria than there ever was in the military era. But still - the struggling masses using their energies to provide for their families can only do so much.

I might sound idealistic but I believe all this open exposure to Nigerian corruption will lead to change. At no time in Nigeria's history (i could be wrong) have I ever noted a period where our dirty laundry of corruption, the names of corrupt folks and their stolen money where so blatantly exposed in the open world media as now. That's a positive. When darkenss is exposed to light it loses its power.
 

The Maverick

Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of the process of democracy but all the same, thanks for the 101.

So you say the government is Nigeria, right? Now, my subsequent question is: Are you Nigerian? And do you believe that Nigerians make Nigeria?
Please don't take any offense. I wasn't trying to educate you or assume you didn't know, my hands were just regurgitating what my brain was processing.

Correct me if I'm wrong...these are your words right?
And who are these government by the way? Isn't it the people? If the government failed, then it's the people that failed! Maybe when we start to see ourselves as the government, maybe then, things would start to shift but so long we keep seeing the government as these money grabbing Hausas who want to seat atop the Delta, we are doomed.
Ok, let me answer your question and I'll get back to the above quote. Yes, I am Nigeria and Nigerians make up Nigeria, the populace. Nigerian citizens are in the government, but they do not have the interest of the people at heart, at least they haven't shown that they do.

You said above that the people is the government and I'm telling you that that's a fairy tale when it comes to Nigeria. In an ideal democracy, perhaps, but if you can't face the facts and open your eyes to the truth, that we're not being ruled by the people we choose, then this road to recovery is farther than we think.

Your argument, has been that we should look at the BIG PICTURE right? What's the point of individual accomplishments when the whole country can't say the same. Well, when it comes to the country, we also have to look at the big picture, in a global scale. And on that scale, the government is who the world sees as Nigeria, because theoritcally, they should represent the interest of the Nigerian populace. You and I know that's not the case. Until they show that they have the interest of the Nigerian people at heart, or make way for those that do, sorry dear, it's hard for me to see myself as a part of a government that oppresses her people.
 
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